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HAWK21M
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B757 Rectification [pic]

Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:06 am


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Photo © AirNikon


The Caption says Hydraulic Snag.The Strut Aft panel too is opened.
Anyidea what the Snag would be.
Leaking line.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
fr8mech
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:32 am

Could be a leak, but I suspect electrical. I don't recall if any of the hydraulic lines are up that far forward. Most of them run aft to the trailing edge flap wells. I haven't been up there in a while.

The area just inboard of the pylon houses the 'vapor seal' disconnects for the engine/pylon. We've had plenty of problems at those connectors in the past.

By the way, anyone note the complete absence of fall protection?
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:14 pm

Come on, now. They're only ~12 feet up and they're a full foot (!!) from the leading edge. There's no way they need fall protection. Where's your sense of adventure?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:14 pm

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 1):
anyone note the complete absence of fall protection

I was thinking the same.
They probably used the Emergency/Overwing exit to reach there.Pity thats not possible on a Freighter.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
nonfirm
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:20 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 3):
was thinking the same.
They probably used the Emergency/Overwing exit to reach there.Pity thats not possible on a Freighter.
regds
MEL

it looks like a platform truck off to the side with a ladder on it.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:13 pm

Quoting Nonfirm (Reply 4):
it looks like a platform truck off to the side with a ladder on it.

That looks like the Refuelling truck.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
fr8mech
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:56 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
Come on, now. They're only ~12 feet up and they're a full foot (!!) from the leading edge. There's no way they need fall protection. Where's your sense of adventure?

Sorry, OSHA rules are OSHA rules.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
miamiair
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:06 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 3):
They probably used the Emergency/Overwing exit

Deactivating the slide while they were at it?
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aogdesk
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:47 pm

My guess is that it isn't a hyrdraulic snag at all, that its actually fuel. If memory serves me correctly, there's one beefy fuel line under that panel which has a nasty habit of springing a leak which shows up as a dry bay leak. Seen one and heard about many others.
 
fr8mech
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:56 pm

Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 8):
If memory serves me correctly, there's one beefy fuel line under that panel which has a nasty habit of springing a leak which shows up as a dry bay leak

I thought it was the firewall coupling that leaked? I'm not sure if you can see the firewall side of the coupling from there, but like I said, haven't been in that area in a while.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:36 am

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 7):
Deactivating the slide while they were at it

Maybe  Smile

Could it be a Duct Leak.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
FlyingColours
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:33 am

I thought the only way to deactivate the slide would be from the outside of the A/C, therefore negating the need to deactivate the slide since they are already on the wing  Wink

Also wouldn't that mean opening up the slide housing which if not shut & locked perfectly can allow the slide go deploy inflight (idea from another thread).

I'm not MX just curious  Smile

Phil
FlyingColours
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A/c train
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:41 am

May not be the situation in the picture, but theres 3 pipes, 2 hyd one fuel that run tight together through the front of the pylon hyd bay from the EDP modue and up along the top under the coffin lid panel, theres a u shaped pipe in the hyd bay that boeing changed the shape of through an S.B because the 2 hyd pipes were chafing through, they may have had one in this case. Ive changed one on the line from the chafing and its not much fun, get covered in skydrol and yes, it was raining all day. Its were the pipe cluster goes through the bulkhead and under the Y ducts, theres that rubber bung assy thats a PITA to put back together and you have to work by feel!!
regds a/c
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:32 pm

Quoting A/c train (Reply 12):
theres a u shaped pipe in the hyd bay that boeing changed the shape of through an S.B because the 2 hyd pipes were chafing through

Any no for the SB.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
A/c train
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:16 pm

Mel, ill have a look into it, it wasnt that long ago so I should be able to find it.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:06 pm

Quoting A/c train (Reply 14):
Mel, ill have a look into it, it wasnt that long ago so I should be able to find it.

Any Progress.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
AirframeAS
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:37 am

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 6):
Sorry, OSHA rules are OSHA rules.

There is no way to wear a harness out on the wing like that because its at a gate, there are no harness attach points anywhere.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
fr8mech
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:11 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
There is no way to wear a harness out on the wing like that because its at a gate, there are no harness attach points anywhere.

Sure there is. You use your lift equipment, which has rated attach points. You tether to it with a retractable, ratcheting lanyard.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
There is no way to wear a harness out on the wing like that because its at a gate, there are no harness attach points anywhere.

What about the Vaccum Type.Used in Mx.
Interesting Link
regds
MEL

[Edited 2006-06-15 03:54:15]
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
jafa39
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:00 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Thread starter):
Anyidea what the Snag would be.

They are reconnecting the Chem-Trail pipes as per CIA directive CT/14-666-666.... Smile  Smile
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
aogdesk
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:49 pm

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 19):
They are reconnecting the Chem-Trail pipes

This is fact. Now that you've heard it from two people, its GOT to be true right??  Wink
 
jafa39
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 20):
its GOT to be true right??

Unless it was the 9/11 cloaking and mind-control device they were installing  Smile
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
AirframeAS
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:00 am

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 17):
You use your lift equipment

But having it OVER the wing isnt a good idea..... the bucket of the lift could collapse (if not used properly or maintained properly) and hit the wing damaging it.

At AS, we were NOT allowed to have ANYTHING over the wing while working...company policy. (but there were exceptions (very rare to get!) that REQUIRED top upper management permission....IE: SI checks for inspectors.)
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
fr8mech
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 22):

Well then, you have a problem. Part of the OSHA standard:

"Unprotected sides and edges." Each employee on a walking/working surface (horizontal and vertical surface) with an unprotected side or edge which is 6 feet (1.8 m) or more above a lower level shall be protected from falling by the use of guardrail systems, safety net systems, or personal fall arrest systems."

Some states have tighter regs: KY-4 feet.


We set up our snorkle lift as close to the work area as possible and tether to it. Sometime this means it is set up over the wing. Too bad. You're looking at the rare event of a cylinder failure vs. the more probable event of a person losing his footing on a wing.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:49 pm

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 23):

"Unprotected sides and edges." Each employee on a walking/working surface (horizontal and vertical surface) with an unprotected side or edge which is 6 feet (1.8 m) or more above a lower level shall be protected from falling by the use of guardrail systems, safety net systems, or personal fall arrest systems."

If AS is only working on 737s and mad dogs, they might not be in violation of this standard. No overwing slides means that at least the trailing edge is less than six feet off the ground.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:57 pm

How effective are the Vaccum type Safety Harnesses.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
fr8mech
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:21 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 24):
trailing edge is less than six feet off the ground

But the leading edge is probably over 6'.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 25):
How effective are the Vaccum type Safety Harnesses

We're looking at them, but to the best of my knowledge, haven't bought any yet.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:42 pm

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 26):
We're looking at them, but to the best of my knowledge, haven't bought any yet

Seen some Ads speaking very well about their efectiveness.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
AirframeAS
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:13 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 24):
If AS is only working on 737s and mad dogs, they might not be in violation of this standard. No overwing slides means that at least the trailing edge is less than six feet off the ground.

Thats correct but still....company policy still comes to mind....and it IS enforced strictly.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
fr8mech
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:48 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 28):
Thats correct but still....company policy still comes to mind....and it IS enforced strictly.

That's fine, but should someone come off the front of that wing, OSHA will change the company policy. I'm suprised OSHA isn't already involved. Usually there's always a whistle-blower running around on the hanger floor or the flight-line.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:01 am

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 29):
Usually there's always a whistle-blower running around on the hanger floor or the flight-line.

True.I guess its common Everywhere.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
nonfirm
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 22):
At AS, we were NOT allowed to have ANYTHING over the wing while working...company policy. (but there were exceptions (very rare to get!) that REQUIRED top upper management permission....IE: SI checks for inspectors.)

where did you get this info from.
 airplane 
 
AirframeAS
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:20 am

Quoting Nonfirm (Reply 31):
where did you get this info from.

I worked there! C/D Checks in SEA before they shut down the base.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
nonfirm
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:41 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 32):
I worked there! C/D Checks in SEA before they shut down the base.

have you ever read the policy for yourself.also in the sea hangar they have a magic carpet and the thing operates from the ceiling so you have to pass over the a/c.can you please state what policy you are talking about and where one might find it.  airplane 
 
AirframeAS
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:29 am

Quoting Nonfirm (Reply 33):
have you ever read the policy for yourself.

Yes, its in the AS maintenance manual. And they also explained it in Indoc training too.

Quoting Nonfirm (Reply 33):
also in the sea hangar they have a magic carpet and the thing operates from the ceiling so you have to pass over the a/c.can you please state what policy you are talking about and where one might find it.

Thats called a teleplatform. Thats used for tail work and fuselage work. As for the policy you are asking about, I dont remember where in the AS maintenance manual it states that.

I never really questioned this rule. I was told (this coming from a very respected inspector and another lead..) the reason being that the teleplatform has done damage to the wings in the past and the company specifically did not want the teleplatform over the wings for that specific reason. That was enough reason for me not to go near the wings. Thats how it was when I was working there. Thats is as far as I know, again...I never questioned the rule from that point. I just did as I was told.

(Disclaimer: The AS maintenance manual may have been revised since the closure of the SEA base, Im strictly going by memory and how things were done when I was there.)

[Edited 2006-06-20 00:31:29]
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
n8076u
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:16 am

Although they "should" have fall protection up there, that would take too much time to set up, and it doesn't "look cool" either.  Wink I used to work for "that" airline, and I have seen lots of unsafe acts like this, even though they preached safety all the time. And yes, I've done it myself. I'm sure since it is a revenue flight, there was a "get 'er done ASAP" attitude prevailing at the time, which trumped safety.

We always used JLG/giraffe lifts to get to the tops of the wings, and always "overhung" the wing, so no such rule at UAL. Finding a lift to use was another story especially at the terminal, so they may have used the overwing exit to get out there. The slide can be properly disarmed from inside the aft cargo pit.

We had two of those "magic carpet" platforms in one of the hangars at SFO. Pretty neat setup, and makes life easy.

Chris
Don't blame me, I don't work here...
 
AirframeAS
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:46 am

I forgot to add to my last post (can't add now...) But another stupid rule was no toolboxes were allowed under the wing because if someone falls off the wing, the injury would be more severe than the floor itself. AND, the stupidest rule: no toolboxes were allowed under and behind the tailstand. I never understood the last one.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:42 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 36):
the stupidest rule: no toolboxes were allowed under and behind the tailstand. I never understood the last one

Toolboxes should be placed in Areas they are very Visable.Else you can trip over the Small ones.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
AirframeAS
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:06 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 37):
Toolboxes should be placed in Areas they are very Visable.Else you can trip over the Small ones.

 checkmark  While I agree, the A&P's I worked with complained about the lack of mobility (I think thats what they called it..) around the airplane while working. They wanted better access to their toolboxes instead of walking so far back and forth. It got to the point to where the immaturity took over and management started writing people up for not following said rules.

But then again, I never questioned the rules.... Not a very good idea to when you're working towards your A&P yourself.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:42 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 38):
I never questioned the rules

One Should never.Most Rules are Formed after carefull thought especially Safety related ones.
Rules are for a purpose and they need to be followed.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
AirframeAS
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:00 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 39):
One Should never.

Agreed!

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 39):
Most Rules are Formed after carefull thought especially Safety related ones.

We had one inspector in SEA who fell off the teleplatform while working on a 727 at AS and plummeted to his death. I dont know specifics (again, I was told this by a lead...) but this happened way, way before I ever arrived at AS. So the end result is wearing harnesses on the teleplatform no matter what, but it wasnt enforced by anyone.... Most of the A&P's dont wear them, but then again....I never questioned them nor did I ask them to put on a harness. Im not their 'mother'.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 39):
Rules are for a purpose and they need to be followed.

Some people in general would say that they are meant to be broken....but I agree with you.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
fr8mech
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:17 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 40):
I never questioned them nor did I ask them to put on a harness. Im not their 'mother'.

That argument works right up until your partner goes off the lift. Or until you're management and any knowledge of someone breaking safety related rules can mean your job.

I have written people up for violating the fall protection rules in my area. I have issued warning letters for seatbelt violations. Safety rules are in place for a reason. Shame on your management group for not enforcing them. Shame on your work group for failure to self-enforce. A delay costs nothing compared to an injured employee.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
DH106
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 39):
One Should never.Most Rules are Formed after carefull thought especially Safety related ones.
Rules are for a purpose and they need to be followed.

Don't agree with 'one should never question' - but certainly one should never violate whilst perhaps questioning.
...I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate....
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting DH106 (Reply 42):
Don't agree with 'one should never question' - but certainly one should never violate whilst perhaps questioning.

Its common in Aviation that Some "Brave" collegues break rules & take shortcuts,while the Guy following the rules is considered "Not so brave"  Smile
I rather be considered not so brave & follow rules.

Its like a story of a guy on a Motorbike jumping from one Terrace of a Building to the Terrace of another Adjacent building.
If he succeeds.The World calls him a Hero.If he does not.The World says he was a fool.

Its your choice.Choose well.
 Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
DH106
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:46 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 43):
Its your choice.Choose well.

You seemed to miss my point.
I was trying to distinguish between 'questioning' and 'violating' rules. I agree that rules are there for a reason and shouldn't be violated because you might question the validity, but disagree with the mindset that one should never question the purpose of rule. I see no safety issue in questioning a rule while not violating it.
...I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate....
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:06 pm

Quoting DH106 (Reply 44):
I see no safety issue in questioning a rule while not violating it

True.Also Maybe a Suggestion can ammend a rule & make it more User friendly & yet Saf.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
AirframeAS
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:16 pm

Quoting DH106 (Reply 42):
Don't agree with 'one should never question'

You might want to re-think that if you were on probation.............
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:27 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 46):
You might want to re-think that if you were on probation.............

 Smile True.....
Until confirmed don't Doubt rules unless its safety related.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
777236ER
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 36):
another stupid rule



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 36):
the stupidest rule



Quoting N8076U (Reply 35):
I have seen lots of unsafe acts like this



Quoting N8076U (Reply 35):
And yes, I've done it myself



Quoting N8076U (Reply 35):
there was a "get 'er done ASAP" attitude prevailing at the time, which trumped safety.

Stupid rules, eh?

Your bone's got a little machine
 
n8076u
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RE: B757 Rectification [pic]

Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:21 am

You used my words out of context, so I'll clarify. What I said before had to do with fall protection not being used by the employees in the thread-starter's picture, and safety was in regards to "personal safety" and putting oneself into a precarious position where an accident was waiting to happen, rather than the safety of anyone flying in the aircraft itself by cutting corners or doing half-assed work. That was not tolerated where I worked in any way, and doing the job right always came first. Anyone caught doing lousy work or cutting corners was severely scolded by the other workers, and was the butt of many jokes, and I won't get into the trouble they might get into with the company. It was a matter of pride. But if you got the plane out on time, and did the job right, it may be overlooked by management that you did it without a harness.

As for removing/installing DC-10 engines with a forklift (reference your picture of the AA DC-10), the procedure was in the UAL maintenance manual (I'll assume AA also had it in their manual), and therefore was an approved method, so it was being done "by the book" even though it may have been wrong to do it that way. Actually, it wasn't that the procedure itself was so wrong, it was just extremely bad judgement to walk away from the process of hanging an engine after installing only the rear bolt.

Yes, I have "walked" on a wing without any fall protection before, so sue me. Especially if the aircraft was in the hangar, it was just too easy to use the harness, as they provided tether points above the wing.

Chris
Don't blame me, I don't work here...

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