flight85
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:54 pm

Star Question For Ksfo And KLAX.

Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:21 am

Hi ! iam alittle confused with Qantas and United flights from YSSY going to KLAX. What confuses me is the STAR Qantas goes like this in the end FICKY C1177 SXC KLAX and UNITED like this LENNA.B577.FICKY..KLAX. I checked what STARS they might use and what i came up with was LEENA4 as it goes SXC and FICKY BUT this arrival is only for 25L. I then checked airliners.net photos and saw that Qantas uses 24R alot on landing. My question is how is that possible?? with LEENA4 only for 25L??. i tried to check some other STAR but none of them went SXC and or FICKY. is 24R landings more common then 25L for Qantas???. I would really like to know how they do to make them land on 24R do ATC vector them from LEENA4 to 24R anyways even if its not on the charts or how??. Would really like to find out.

Also noticed on a UNITED flight YSSY-KSFO the last waypoint is often CINNY. There is no STAR starting at CINNY so how do they do there?? does ATC vector them to a STAR or does ATC vecotr them all the way to the ILS without any STAR?? If they use a STAR which one is most common on the route from CINNY???. I hope someone knows atleast answear to 1 of the questions.

Kind Regards:Alexander

[Edited 2006-07-03 22:22:08]

[Edited 2006-07-03 22:22:48]
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Star Question For Ksfo And KLAX.

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:12 am

Hi Alex

Let me say a couple things. Most QF and UA flights from the South Pac do land on the southside runways, 25L being the most common. The reason for this is that in general the arrivals from the South off the Santa Catalina or Seal Beach VOR can cleanly get vectored to the southern runways.

SoCal approach however is rather good with trying to shuffle things around to allow people to land on the side they park on. One of the best examples of this are the Northbound arrivals off the Santa Monica VOR where carriers such as United will often get set up for visually approaches to the southern runways as they park on the Southside. Another example is approaches from the East off the desert which likewise also get shuffled around based on where they park on the airport. Another SoCal phenomena which I just alluded to is the frequent use of visual approaches. With good weather ATC will often clear you for visual approach many many miles out. For instance flying into LAX, I have been offered visuals to LAX out towards the Big Bear/Ontario area coming from the East.

SIDs and STARs are more for flight planning purposes with ATC changing things around as required.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
timz
Posts: 6120
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Star Question For Ksfo And KLAX.

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting Flight85 (Thread starter):
on a UNITED flight YSSY-KSFO the last waypoint is often CINNY. There is no STAR starting at CINNY so how do they do there??

Yup, no STAR exists coming into SFO/OAK/SJC/SMF from Hawaii (or that direction). As I recall ATC clears SFO arrivals to the Woodside VOR (maybe to PIRAT, then Woodside?).

As you saw, there's no STAR into the LA area either-- probably not into PDX or SEA either.
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Star Question For Ksfo And KLAX.

Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:00 am

Quoting Timz (Reply 2):
Yup, no STAR exists coming into SFO/OAK/SJC/SMF from Hawaii (or that direction). As I recall ATC clears SFO arrivals to the Woodside VOR (maybe to PIRAT, then Woodside?).

As you saw, there's no STAR into the LA area either-- probably not into PDX or SEA either.

What about the arrival from the south to SFO, BSR2 sounds like a good one, SMF has the CCR1, PDX the MOXEE5, SEA the OLM5.....seems like a good number of arrivals inbound to these airports to me! Keep in mind not all STARS align with the most direct route into the airport but use a "cornerpost" concept, separating arrival routes from departure routes so the HNL arrival to say SEA may not be a direct route to the airport, I imagine the OLM is what they use.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
timz
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Star Question For Ksfo And KLAX.

Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:33 am

Quoting Iahflyr (Reply 3):
What about the arrival from the south to SFO, BSR2 sounds like a good one, SMF has the CCR1,

I meant no STARs for flights from Hawaii and beyond. Such flights rarely (probably never) use the Big Sur or Concord STARs.
 
PhilSquares
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Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

RE: Star Question For Ksfo And KLAX.

Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting Timz (Reply 4):
I meant no STARs for flights from Hawaii and beyond. Such flights rarely (probably never) use the Big Sur or Concord STARs.

I don't quite know what you mean about beyond, but from Asia it's not uncommon to get the SADDE 6 arrival. Generally you'll get a heading when passing SMO and then clearance for the visual shortly after that.

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0606/00237SADDE.PDF
Fly fast, live slow
 
IAHFLYR
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Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Star Question For Ksfo And KLAX.

Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:37 pm

Quoting Timz (Reply 4):
I meant no STARs for flights from Hawaii and beyond

I'm not sure what exactly you mean either, but the time of day they arrive also could have something to do with why no STAR is issued......like very early morning flights will be cleared direct to the airport from many miles away due to little traffice.......but if not arriving in that senario I believe they are routed via a STAR.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
lorm
Posts: 377
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 4:31 am

RE: Star Question For Ksfo And KLAX.

Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:04 pm

Yep, inbounds from Hawaii to SFO on the CLUTS..R-465 will usually file for OSI after CINNY. AQ flights inbound to OAK on R-465 will usually file "....R-465 CINNY FARRA OAK however. Occationally you'll see odd routing due to weather over the Pacific with random LAT LON coords and criss crossing between the tracks. I've been on flights from SFO that started did BEBOP R-464 that crossed over to R-463 and finished at APACK and recently one LAX-HNL route that started DINTY R-576 that finished at APACK on R-463!
-L
Brick Windows
 
flight85
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:54 pm

RE: Star Question For Ksfo And KLAX.

Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:58 pm

Hi ! THANK YOU ! i really apriciate all the responses i have learned ALOT. I dont know how to thank you all. Just a big THANK YOU.

Take Care everyone !


Kind Regards:Alexander
 
timz
Posts: 6120
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Star Question For Ksfo And KLAX.

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:23 am

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 6):
the time of day they arrive also could have something to do with why no STAR is issued......like very early morning flights will be cleared direct to the airport from many miles away due to little traffice.

I don't think you'll ever hear a flight into SFO from the southwest cleared "direct to the airport". What would be the point? They still have to line up with runway 28.

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 6):
.......but if not arriving in that senario I believe they are routed via a STAR.

What STAR?
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Star Question For Ksfo And KLAX.

Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting Timz (Reply 9):
I don't think you'll ever hear a flight into SFO from the southwest cleared "direct to the airport". What would be the point? They still have to line up with runway 28.

Why not......10 NM base legs might be a way to get to the 28's! Point being like IAH, airplanes are cleared direct to the airport almost always after midnight rather than make them from say ABQ..FST..CLL.RIICE1.IAH, just shorten the route somewhat and they get cleared direct IAH from maybe right off the ground in ABQ.....let the approach control set them up for the landing runway. That concept is what I was using for the direct SFO.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.

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