DIJKKIJK
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DC4-Carvair Question

Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:13 pm

I have a question about DC-4s and Carvairs. What is the advantage of converting a DC4 into a carvair? The added weight due the bulbous front portin of a carvair would surely reduce cargo carrying capacity, not to speak of the drag causing increased fuel consumption. Is it only because the carvair can carry oversized cargo?


And is it possible to convert a DC6 or DC7 into a carvair?



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DH106
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RE: DC4-Carvair Question

Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:21 pm

The Carvair was produced, I believe, specifically by Aviation Traders for car transportation to meet the 'Cross Channel' market. It may well be that the new bulbous nose was heavier than the DC-4s, but the main criteria was to be able to drive a number of cars on and off through the nose door. Since your average car is probably lighter then it's equivalent storage volume space in cargo then it may well be that the Carvair wasn't as weight limited, more volume limited.

One intersting design feature is that adoption of the DC-6/7 taller/squarer fin over the original DC-4s fin to offset the increased side area of the front.

The DC-6/7, unlike the DC-4, were pressurised aircraft so I doubt it would be feasible (economically) to make a pressurised bulbous front end. If you were willing to do away with presurisation, then I guess a conversion might be feasible but I still doubt it would be economically viable with the other more modern cargo aircraft available today. You'd need to develop an even taller fin.

[Edited 2006-07-07 16:25:07]
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411A
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RE: DC4-Carvair Question

Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:00 pm

DH106 has given very accurate information about the ATL98 Carvair, and I would only add that Aviation Traders at the time, was owned by...Sir Freddie Laker.

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L-188
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RE: DC4-Carvair Question

Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:31 pm

Quoting DH106 (Reply 1):
The Carvair was produced, I believe, specifically by Aviation Traders for car transportation to meet the 'Cross Channel' market. It may well be that the new bulbous nose was heavier than the DC-4s, but the main criteria was to be able to drive a number of cars on and off through the nose door

That is pretty much my understanding of the history add to that....the airplane type was featured in the movie, "Goldfinger"

Quoting DH106 (Reply 1):
The DC-6/7, unlike the DC-4, were pressurised aircraft so I doubt it would be feasible (economically) to make a pressurised bulbous front end. If you were willing to do away with presurisation, then I guess a conversion might be feasible but I still doubt it would be economically viable with the other more modern cargo aircraft available today. You'd need to develop an even taller fin.

Well there was the two that where converted to "Swingtails" that didn't require the bulbous nose and they where presurizable either.
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iRISH251
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RE: DC4-Carvair Question

Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:32 am

BTW although the Carvair had a taller fin, which resembled that of the DC-7C, it was different in that the rudder did not extend to the full fin height. This is apparent in the first of the two photos above.
 
DH106
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RE: DC4-Carvair Question

Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting Irish251 (Reply 4):
BTW although the Carvair had a taller fin, which resembled that of the DC-7C, it was different in that the rudder did not extend to the full fin height. This is apparent in the first of the two photos above.

Good point Irish - never noticed that, just assumed they strapped on a DC-6/7
fin/rudder, but as you say it isn't standard as the rudder stops well short of the top. Well spotted.
...I watched c-beams glitter in the dark by the Tanhauser Gate....
 
faenum
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RE: DC4-Carvair Question

Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting 411A (Reply 2):
DH106 has given very accurate information about the ATL98 Carvair, and I would only add that Aviation Traders at the time, was owned by...Sir Freddie Laker.

Not much I can add to the information already given, except this. Not only did Sir Freddie Laker own Aviation Traders Ltd (ATL), the Carvair was his idea as a replacement for the Bristol Freighter Mk32s used to ferry cars across the English Channel by Silver City Airways and (Laker's) Channel Air Bridge.

In the mid-1960s, the Managing Director of British United Air Ferries (an amalgamation of the two car-ferry airlines) wrote that Sir Freddie's wife described how, on a Sunday in 1958, he dashed out of his bath to telephone ATL's Chief Engineer to ask for the measurements of a DC-4 to see if a conversion was feasible. A few years later this was the result.



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