b52murph
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DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:40 pm

Question for all you ground-handlers out there familiar with the subject....Can you use a DC-10/KC-10 towbar on the nose of an L1011?

My best guess is that the L1011 towbar would be Lockheed-specific, but we're not sure. Thanks!

b52murph
 
Buzz
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:15 pm

Hi B52Murph, Buzz here. about 17 years ago we used the same bar on the DC-10's and L-1011-500's. Yes, UAL had half a dozen L-1011s we bought from Pan Am.
And we use the same bar on the 767 series too.
g'day
 
n8076u
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:26 pm

Quoting Buzz (Reply 1):
we used the same bar on the DC-10's and L-1011-500's. Yes, UAL had half a dozen L-1011s we bought from Pan Am.
And we use the same bar on the 767 series too.

I agree with Buzz. The 777 also uses the same bar as the above aircraft.

Chris
Don't blame me, I don't work here...
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:10 pm

Quoting Buzz (Reply 1):
And we use the same bar on the 767 series too

Yes the L1011 DC10 B777 and B767 all have the same towbar connection. But be careful. They have different shear pins. If you use a B777 towbar on a B767 it will not shear at the right force as it is much stronger.
We broke our B777 towbar last month, and successfully used a B767 for the pushback. But very carefully, and without the engines running as the shear load is much lower.
 
n8076u
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:34 pm

[quote=Tristarsteve,reply=3]Yes the L1011 DC10 B777 and B767 all have the same towbar connection. But be careful. They have different shear pins. If you use a B777 towbar on a B767 it will not shear at the right force as it is much stronger.

I figured different airlines would do things differently. We did not have any dedicated 777 towbars. The towbars we had were approved (and placarded as such) for use with several aircraft including the DC-10, L1011, 767, 777, and some Airbus as well (A300, etc). I can only guess the shearpin was the lowest common denominator strengthwise, so to speak, to allow the use on so many aircraft.

Chris
Don't blame me, I don't work here...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:44 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 3):
They have different shear pins. If you use a B777 towbar on a B767 it will not shear at the right force as it is much stronger

Thats exactly what I was Thinking.How do you Determine what Shear Pin is needed for Which Aircraft.Is it Illustrated on that Pin.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
b52murph
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:27 am

Thanks! You may have just saved us quite a bit of $$$...

b52murph
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 3):
We broke our B777 towbar last month,

Pray tell how you managed that.  Wink
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:35 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):
Pray tell how you managed that

I was hoping you wouldnt ask!
I forgot the steering lock out pin, and the driver didnt check. So as soon as we started to push back the shear pins went.
I always put the lock out pin in on arrival, but that day I was not there. I was busy on an A319 so I asked someone else to meet the B777. So I forgot the pin.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:24 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 8):
I forgot the steering lock out pin, and the driver didnt check. So as soon as we started to push back the shear pins went

Ok the Shear pin broke not the Tow bar  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
n8076u
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:49 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 8):
I forgot the steering lock out pin, and the driver didnt check.

Oops.  Wink It's even worse when you dispatch an aircraft, and you forget to take out the pin. The pilots are usually not very understanding...

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9):
Ok the Shear pin broke not the Tow bar

I'd say on average, one towbar a week got it's shear pin snapped (and I am being conservative), but keep in mind we had over 100 of them between the gates and maintenance areas, and lots of inexperienced tow personnel.

I've even seen a cheaper "new style" lightweight towbar get bent in half. Sitting between a 450,000lb 747 and a 200,000 tug, it had no choice but to give it's life when the tug driver got going a little too fast crossing the active, and then tried to turn.

Chris
Don't blame me, I don't work here...
 
ReidYYZ
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:21 pm

The Tristar bar also fits an A330. The shear pins on our model tow bars were stamped for a/c specific. After a while we just went with the lower strength pin (330, I think) so no changing pins back and forth for different departures.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting ReidYYZ (Reply 11):
The shear pins on our model tow bars were stamped for a/c specific

Is there any Corelation between P/N & Shear load.Where can that be accessed.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
ReidYYZ
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:51 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 12):
Is there any Corelation between P/N & Shear load.Where can that be accessed.

It is stamped with a/c type, not part number. The aircraft that can take a higher load gets the stronger pin. Being an aircraft mechanic, don't know, never noticed and don't care about any corelation. Truth be known, our GSE mech doesn't know, never noticed or doesn't care either. Pin gets broke, he fix. Where can it be accessed? I don't have the spare time you do to look up this info, and again, nor do I care. If it ain't an airplane, it really doesn't interest me.
 
n8076u
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:57 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 12):
Is there any Corelation between P/N & Shear load.Where can that be accessed.

I found one example for you:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?...229X02027&ntsbno=ATL06LA024&akey=1

Excerpt from the report:

"Examination of the tow bar revealed it was equipped with a 727-shear pin, part number AN5-36A."

Chris
Don't blame me, I don't work here...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:49 pm

Interesting Link.
The wing-walkers stated that it was raining as the push back procedure was initiated and they noted a smell of glycol
Whats this Glycol smell originate from.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
n8076u
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
Whats this Glycol smell originate from.

Maybe de-icing fluid or the tug's radiator.

Chris
Don't blame me, I don't work here...
 
cancidas
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:21 am

while we're on this topic, how often are shear pins supposed to be replaced? our 737/319 bars are fine and hold up amazingly. the problem we encounter is with our regional jet bars. while we do have a lot of inexperienced pushback-qualified agents, i think that a lot of the shear-pin snappage has to do with the fact that our pins are not maintained and just left in the bars to be abused as long as possible. how long are they supposed to last?


by the way, we've got 167 daily departures and only 4 bars, 2 each for ERJ and CR2.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
TUGMASTER
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:47 am

Hello all,
Here at LHR we have a specific Pushback/Tow Department, so all of are guys are highly trained and do no other work other than push, tow or ride the brakes.thats it.

should they bust a shear pin on a bar, it usually 'cos they been rushing (as agents do).the only exceptions i can think of, are 747 pins steering pins which are put in upside down...(can easily fall out) and A300 bars....(twin side locking) which are crap to push anyway, but seem to have a really low shear tolerance.

As for what bar fit's what........?

A330/A340/L1011/DC10/MD11/B767/B777.......SAME BAR.......


if your good enough, you wont even feel it.

rgds
 
n8076u
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:21 am

Quoting TUGMASTER (Reply 18):
747 pins steering pins which are put in upside down

As usual, there is an exception to the rule.  Wink UA has a modified pin setup on their 747s, which uses a different "very long" pin that inserts from the top.

Chris
Don't blame me, I don't work here...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:40 pm

Quoting N8076U (Reply 16):
Maybe de-icing fluid or the tug's radiator

Does the Radiator use Glycol.

Quoting Cancidas (Reply 17):
while we're on this topic, how often are shear pins supposed to be replaced



Quoting Cancidas (Reply 17):
how long are they supposed to last

If Handled well.Long time.Is there a Scheduled Replacement time.

On the B752 Towbar.If it shears out,The lower part drops out.The Replacement is attached to the Bar side & can be replaced Quickly & Splitpinned below.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:11 pm

Quoting TUGMASTER (Reply 18):
747 pins steering pins which are put in upside down...(can easily fall out

They will if you use a B757/B767/B777 pin with the locking device on the end.
However there is a special B747 lock out pin , which is exactly the same size, with the locking device in the middle. This stays put.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:56 am

http://www.hallind.com/Images/Aviation/757%20CROP%20Tow%20Eye.jpg
B757 Towbar.


A300 Towbar.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
n8076u
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 20):
Does the Radiator use Glycol.

Some anti-freeze (definitely the standard green "Prestone" stuff) used in vehicle radiators is made of (ethylene and diethylene) glycol.  Wink

Chris
Don't blame me, I don't work here...
 
pilotpip
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
Whats this Glycol smell originate from.

Mel,

I didn't read the link but during winter months 727s will stink to high hell if they had to be deiced at the previous stop. The APU is in the wheelwell (as you probably know) and the exhaust is near the trailing edge of the right wing root. Glycol runs down into it, and gets burned off when the APU is running.
DMI
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:27 pm

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 24):
Glycol runs down into it, and gets burned off when the APU is running.

Interesting & Educational.We never do DeIcing out here,thanks to the Climate,so its nice to know.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
pilotpip
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:50 pm

No problem Mel, you're usually the one with the useful info. Glad to help  Smile

It's pretty bad when you're fueling. The exhaust is right above that wing root and gets pretty noisy. Then it's colder than hell, and you smell cotton candy gone bad...
DMI
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: DC-10 Towbar For An L1011

Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:45 pm

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 26):
It's pretty bad when you're fueling. The exhaust is right above that wing root and gets pretty noisy. Then it's colder than hell, and you smell cotton candy gone bad

I always wondered why the MWW was the chosen location for the APU on this model.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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