MechEngineer
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Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:08 am

A question to all you pilots, especially those whose "office" is smallish and a bit cramped (not-A380):

Do you actually use the provided handholds in the cockpit (overhead, in the glareshield, etc.), i.e when you get in and out of your seat, or adjust your seat up and down, or fore and aft?

Is there a design you find quite useful, or maybe one that seems clever, but is impractical to use in reality? What would you like to tell the designer, if you had the chance to grab one by the collar?
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RaginMav
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:14 am

I know the Beechjet (fairly small cockpit) pilots at the company I work for use them all the time, both getting into/out of seats, and while seated
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:30 am

Sitting in the standard Boeing seats (with the small flipper release levers), it is very difficult to adjust the seat vertically without taking your weight off it by using the grab handle. Horizontal adjustment is also harder without using the handle.

The Ipeco type seats, with longer levers, can easily be adjusted without using the grab handle for balance, the same goes for motorised seats of course.

Surely the main purpose of the handle is to provide somewhere to hang the fluffy dice  Smile
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MechEngineer
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:38 am

Quote:
I know the Beechjet (fairly small cockpit) pilots at the company I work for use them all the time, both getting into/out of seats, and while seated.

Hi, Knowledge Sponge. The odd thing is that I can't see any handholds on the Beech photos at airliners.net
Can you tell me where these are, for preference on a current Beech design?
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MechEngineer
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:44 am

Quote:
Surely the main purpose of the handle is to provide somewhere to hang the fluffy dice.

I've been told the FAA has a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking about the exact size and location of fluffy dice in transport-category aircraft, which will become compulsory on April 1st 2010. I do hope your simulators comply, or you'll be out of business.
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:00 am

I see our pilots use them all the time.
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thegreatchecko
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:01 pm

Quoting MechEngineer (Reply 3):
Hi, Knowledge Sponge. The odd thing is that I can't see any handholds on the Beech photos at airliners.net
Can you tell me where these are, for preference on a current Beech design?

MechEngineer,

The handhold is located aft and central to the overhead instrument panel.


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Photo © Zaza



Basically, just behind airspeed placard.

Personally, I'm a fan of the classic handle on the windscreen. Like on the Hawker 850. Its nice to rest your hand on during flight.


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Photo © Agustin Anaya



This picture is shot wide angle, so it looks funny, but you can see the handles in the corners.

GreatChecko
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HAWK21M
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:39 pm

Maintenance wise. Sure Always Use them especially while Adjusting the Seats on a B737/757.  Smile
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MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:01 am

Quoting MechEngineer (Reply 4):
I've been told the FAA has a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking about the exact size and location of fluffy dice in transport-category aircraft, which will become compulsory on April 1st 2010. I do hope your simulators comply, or you'll be out of business.

LOL. Fluffy Dice Positioning compliance is an absolute priority.

Years ago, the company I then worked for made a low cost Fokker 100 systems trainer, where the grab handles (inset in the windshield frame, see photo) were there for appearance purposes only and not very strong. Needless to say, they did not last long once pilots started to use it.


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HAWK21M
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:08 am

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 8):
Years ago, the company I then worked for made a low cost Fokker 100 systems trainer, where the grab handles (inset in the windshield frame, see photo) were there for appearance purposes only and not very strong.

Were the Seats in the Trainer Movable.
regds
MEL
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Jetlagged
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9):
Were the Seats in the Trainer Movable.

I think they were, I can't remember exactly, but pilots would grab the handles instinctively.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:58 pm

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 10):
I think they were, I can't remember exactly, but pilots would grab the handles instinctively.

Can't blame them then.
If you are providing Movable seats in a Trainer that Resembles an Aircraft,its bound to occur.

regds
MEL
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Tod
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:37 pm

Quoting MechEngineer (Thread starter):
What would you like to tell the designer, if you had the chance to grab one by the collar?

Ah, come on, play nice.
I already get that treatment from the mechanics.  Wink

Quoting MechEngineer (Reply 4):
I've been told the FAA has a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking about the exact size and location of fluffy dice in transport-category aircraft, which will become compulsory on April 1st 2010. I do hope your simulators comply, or you'll be out of business.

No worries, we are already working on a alternate means of compliance utilizing those tree shaped air fresheners.

Tod
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:11 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):
Can't blame them then.
If you are providing Movable seats in a Trainer that Resembles an Aircraft,its bound to occur.

Wasn't blaming them at all. Just pointing out that instincts and habits can override other warnings. Whether the seats are movable or not will not change that.

Nobody realised that until the crews began to use it. Obviously we had noticed the handholds were flimsy (cheap out-sourced structure).
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:40 am

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 13):
Wasn't blaming them at all.

I did not mean that.Guess the words were wrong.Rephrasing,I was Implying Crew are used to some procedure & will follow it.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
MechEngineer
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:57 am

Quote:
No worries, we are already working on a alternate means of compliance utilizing those tree shaped air fresheners.

Somehow, I'm getting the impression you're not taking this thread seriously, Tod...
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modesto2
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:31 am

I use the handholds in our EMB-135/145 aircraft when adjusting my seat forward and back. I don't find it useful or necessary for getting in and out of the seat.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:31 pm

Quoting Modesto2 (Reply 16):
I don't find it useful or necessary for getting in and out of the seat.

Do those seats slide For-Aft.If so where do you place your free hand when you move the seat back to egress.
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MEL
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modesto2
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:47 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 17):
Do those seats slide For-Aft.If so where do you place your free hand when you move the seat back to egress.

Yes, they slide forwards and backwards. I just put my free hand on the seat itself and turn around. It doesn't take THAT much to get out of the seat.
 
MechEngineer
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:13 pm

OK, thanks for the information, everyone. Apparently, cockpit handholds are universally used and the current designs do what they're supposed to do. Watch out for the handholds in a utility jet that will be on the market next year.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:49 pm

Quoting MechEngineer (Reply 19):
Watch out for the handholds in a utility jet that will be on the market next year

Whats special about them.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
nonfirm
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:58 pm

I use the handhold it the 737 everytime we tow or taxi to help adjust my seat.
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MechEngineer
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RE: Do Pilots Use The Handholds In The Cockpit?

Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:19 am

Quote:
What's special about them.

Nothing. You missed your chance.

Seriously, I was looking for some elegant-looking handhold from a non-aviation application that can be moved out of the way when not in use, but wanted to make sure I hadn't missed an operational aspect that might make the concept impractical, that's why I asked you pilots (the customer wouldn't want me to name the aircraft in an internet forum, alas).

Ralph
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