curlyheadboy
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APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:17 pm

Noticed this curious detail in the beautiful pic by Mariusz Adamski, the APU exhaust looks like there's a sort of plug inside, someone knows the reason why? Or is it just an optical illusion that I see...?



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SP90
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:22 pm

Yea that looks like a yellow butt plug there.

BTW, what is that guy in the red shirt doing on the side of the runway? Test plane coming down the runway, standing close by in a red shirt...doesn't sound like a winning combination.  Wink
 
EMBQA
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:56 pm

Yes, it's plugged.... but the APU is there and works. I never understood why they do that and I ment to ask the Brazilian Engineers when 170.0001 and 190.0002 paid us a visit....

Just a note: The serial number shown is wrong. That aircraft, PP-XMJ is 190.0005. All E170/175 and E190/195 have the same serial number groups as the aircraft is Type Certificated as the same.

[Edited 2006-08-19 16:09:29]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
SlamClick
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:10 pm

Quoting SP90 (Reply 1):
BTW, what is that guy in the red shirt doing on the side of the runway?

Looks to me like he is holding a camera. Remember, OSHA has no authority in Brazil.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
777wt
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:13 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 2):
Yes, it's plugged.... but the APU is there and works. I never understood why they do that and I ment to ask the Brazilian Engineers when 170.0001 and 190.0002 paid us a visit....

Just a note: The serial number shown is wrong. That aircraft, PP-XMJ is 190.0005. All E170/175 and E190/195 have the same serial number groups as the aircraft is Type Certificated as the same.

What is the difference between the 170 and the 175? I know LGA is to start getting 175's for US Airways within a few months since most of the 145's are going to CO express colors shortly.

One more thing, I was doing a NLG wheel change on Delta Shuttle 170 and I was standing under the fwd e-bay while changing the L/H NLG wheel. There was the jetbridge attached to it and the GPU was connected. My cochlear implant processor made a high pitched whine for like a min then shuts off. I had to turn it back on 5 times. This didn't happen when I did a NLG wheel R&R on the 145.
Could it be the fwd avioncs in close range or the GPU causing interference?
 
EMBQA
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:08 am

Quoting 777WT (Reply 4):
What is the difference between the 170 and the 175?

Length.. that's it. There are two plugs addded. One forward of the wing, one aft of the wing. Now the E170/175 to E190/195 are very different. The E190/195 has bigger engines, bigger gear and sits much higher. I 'think' the E190 has a different wing. I didn't realise how different until we had a E190 parked next to a E170 in the hangar. The E170 looked like a toy.

Quoting 777WT (Reply 4):
Could it be the fwd avioncs in close range or the GPU causing interference?

That would be my guess. The Ejets use AC power, where the ERJ's use DC power at the gates. My guess would be the AC power frequancy was close and caused the interfearance. Also, above your head was a bunch of avionics, power units, converters so it could have come from anywhere.

[Edited 2006-08-19 18:10:45]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting SP90 (Reply 1):

BTW, what is that guy in the red shirt doing on the side of the runway? Test plane coming down the runway, standing close by in a red shirt...doesn't sound like a winning combination.

Obviously an A.nutter.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
David L
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:01 am

OK, so the plugged APU isn't the reason for smoke pouring from every orifice, then?  Smile
 
bri2k1
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:05 am

Those high-speed braking tests are something to witness. My club's planes are parked along side runway 10/28 at APA, and I recently got to witness Adam Aircraft performing the same on the A700 as I preflighted. There wasn't quite as much smoke, but I still thought it was impressive. Sadly, I didn't have my camera with me.
Position and hold
 
L-188
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:21 am

My Guess....They plugged it because they where doing these runs through the water tank, and didn't want to flood it out.

All airplanes have to do this test, basicly the run the airplane through about 2 inches of standing water and watch where the spray pattern ends up-specificly not in the engines.

It isn't a braking test.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 3):
Quoting SP90 (Reply 1):
BTW, what is that guy in the red shirt doing on the side of the runway?

Looks to me like he is holding a camera. Remember, OSHA has no authority in Brazil.

Exactly, you film it for the engineers to see what part of the designs they screwed up on.
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RichPhitzwell
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:41 am

Quoting David L (Reply 7):
OK, so the plugged APU isn't the reason for smoke pouring from every orifice, then?

Is that not steam and water spray? That would be a site to see though in a non fire situation.

I hear it now:
Hey, who's the wise cracker who put bananas in my APU tail pipe again!
Nonav.com kinda like Whiners except the lights are on and the pimps been paid
 
EMBQA
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 9):
My Guess....They plugged it because they where doing these runs through the water tank, and didn't want to flood it out.

No, all the early test bed aircraft have the APU plugged, not just for this test. Why..? I forgot to ask..

Quoting David L (Reply 7):
OK, so the plugged APU isn't the reason for smoke pouring from every orifice, then?

That is not 'smoke'.. it's just water splashing up from the high speed taxi test. This test is done to make sure water does not splash up from the nose wheel directly into the intakes.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
David L
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 10):
Is that not steam and water spray?



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 11):
That is not 'smoke'.

Thanks, guys, but I did read the replies prior to mine, hence the " ". But here's another one anyway:

Edit: Hmm... it seems no-one had mentioned the spray before my reply. Anyway, it was just a remark which wouldn't have worked with spray instead of smoke. I know the plugged APU wasn't causing smoke "to pour out of every orifice".  Smile

[Edited 2006-08-20 01:16:07]
 
RichPhitzwell
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting David L (Reply 12):
Edit: Hmm... it seems no-one had mentioned the spray before my reply. Anyway, it was just a remark which wouldn't have worked with spray instead of smoke. I know the plugged APU wasn't causing smoke "to pour out of every orifice".

I figured as much, but after posting, still would be fun to see bananas.
Nonav.com kinda like Whiners except the lights are on and the pimps been paid
 
474218
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:03 am

I would bet there is no APU installed and the plug is to keep any water out of the APU compartment. You can also see the fairing for the trailing cone at the top of the vertical stabilizer and there is a section of left hand elevator trailing edge missing.

Notice the position of the horizontal stabilized, trimmed stabilizer nose up, to insure there was no surprise lift off during the test.
 
EMBQA
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:20 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 14):
I would bet there is no APU installed and the plug is to keep any water out of the APU compartment.


As someone that has stood next to those aircraft with the APU running and the plug installed I can assure you it has an APU.......

Quoting 474218 (Reply 14):
You can also see the fairing for the trailing cone at the top of the vertical stabilizer and there is a section of left hand elevator trailing edge missing.

The extra fairing on top of the vertical is for a trailing sensor they roll out during flight test. As for the LH horizontal, I think your seeing the camera mout to record the test.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
474218
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:40 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 15):
The extra fairing on top of the vertical is for a trailing sensor they roll out during flight test.

I think that is what I said. The fairing at the top of the vertical stabilizer is for the for the trailing cone. A trailing cone is used to calibrate the pitot static system and it is let out to trail behind the aircraft in still air.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 15):
As someone that has stood next to those aircraft with the APU running and the plug installed I can assure you it has an APU.......

Will if there is a plug installed the APU will not run, the exhaust has to go out somewhere.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 15):
As for the LH horizontal, I think your seeing the camera mout to record the test.

I can see a yellow section starting about half way out on the horizontal that looks a lot like primer and there is a step between the inboard, aluminum colored section and outboard yellow section.
 
EMBQA
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:50 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 16):
Will if there is a plug installed the APU will not run, the exhaust has to go out somewhere.

True.. it exits out the top...
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Tim Feise - APO Photos


Here you can see a picture of 190.0001 with its APU plugged and the APU clearly running and venting out the top.
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Photo © Stephan Klos Pugatch




Quoting 474218 (Reply 16):
I can see a yellow section starting about half way out on the horizontal that looks a lot like primer and there is a step between the inboard, aluminum colored section and outboard yellow section.

I know during flight test they painted black, yellow and red patterens on the controls...maybe your seeing that..?

[Edited 2006-08-20 03:55:00]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:08 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 17):
a picture of 190.0001

Whats the Story behind this numbering system used.Is it only Emb specific.
regds
MEL
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EMBQA
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:17 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 18):
Whats the Story behind this numbering system used.Is it only Emb specific.

It's just their numbering system.....it the sequential production run. Every manufacture uses their own system.

EMB120 use 120.?????
EMB135/140/145's use 145.?????
EMB170/175's use 170.??????
EMB190/195's use 190.??????
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
David L
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:19 am

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 13):
I figured as much, but after posting, still would be fun to see bananas.

I was party to jamming a potato in someone's car exhaust once (he was asking for it  innocent  ). What a disappointment. I don't know how it happened but he started the engine at the second attempt and we found the potato a couple hundred yards down the road.
 
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LTU932
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:26 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 18):
Whats the Story behind this numbering system used.Is it only Emb specific.

From what I understand after re-reading reply 2, it's Embraer specific, like Boeing and their serial number/line number combos.

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Photo © Radoslaw Idaszak (EPGD Spotters)

From what I can see, it's like the MSN and line number at the same time. As the Embraer 17x and 19x are probably two separate lines, it could mean that in this example, 19000011 is the entire serial number of the particular E-19x, while the last numbers indicate the line number like Boeing (in this case, line number 11), while in the case of the E-175 from the picture I posted, it's MSN 17000134, and line number 134. Please correct me if I'm wrong though.
 
SP90
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:00 pm

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 3):
Looks to me like he is holding a camera. Remember, OSHA has no authority in Brazil.



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
Obviously an A.nutter.



Quoting L-188 (Reply 9):
Exactly, you film it for the engineers to see what part of the designs they screwed up on.

Ahh, you guys missed the joke. I guess your not big Trekkies.  Smile
 
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Francoflier
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 9):
Exactly, you film it for the engineers to see what part of the designs they screwed up on.

Well I hope for him they didn't screw up on that part of the design where the aircraft keeps going straight when passing through standing water at high speed...  Silly
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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litz
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 17):
Here you can see a picture of 190.0001 with its APU plugged and the APU clearly running and venting out the top.

Umm ... ok ... that picture pretty definately proves there's an APU and it's running ... so ... the $1000 question still remains -

What on earth is there an exhaust BEHIND it for, then, and why is it plugged?

- litz
 
777wt
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting Litz (Reply 24):
Umm ... ok ... that picture pretty definately proves there's an APU and it's running ... so ... the $1000 question still remains -

What on earth is there an exhaust BEHIND it for, then, and why is it plugged?

Ask EMBQA to call an Embraer engineer and find out what's the reason  Wink
 
EMBQA
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:07 am

I'll zip an e-mail down to my Engineering friend, but he's also an 'A.nutter' so maybe he'll see it and answer.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
KELPkid
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting David L (Reply 20):
I was party to jamming a potato in someone's car exhaust once (he was asking for it innocent ). What a disappointment. I don't know how it happened but he started the engine at the second attempt and we found the potato a couple hundred yards down the road.

Pity, when someone did it to my car (never did find the jokesters  Wink ), I had to keep cranking and cranking and cranking the engine to start...(which is wierd in a fuel-injected car). When the car did finally turn over, I heard a really loud "bang" (akin to a 12-gauge shotgun blast), and looked in my rearview mirror, as several carbonized pieces of potato went bouncing around the driveway at my parents' house.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
3DPlanes
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:59 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 16):
I can see a yellow section starting about half way out on the horizontal that looks a lot like primer and there is a step between the inboard, aluminum colored section and outboard yellow section.

It certainly looks like there could be a bit missing. But why? And only on one side? An illusion, I think. The sun is coming from the other side, and the ambient wouldn't light up the primer that much, not with a "hotspot" right where a dark-ish corner should be...

I think the yellow-ish bit is actually a reflection of the yellow stripe (marking the start of the water?) across the runway and the "edge" that appears out near the tip is the camera mentioned above - mounted in a tube along the end of the stab...
"Simplicate and add lightness." - Ed Heinemann
 
EMBQA
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:24 am

Quoting Litz (Reply 24):
What on earth is there an exhaust BEHIND it for, then, and why is it plugged?

OK, ... a Stability Control Parachute.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
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litz
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RE: APU Looks Plugged On This Test Airplane

Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:54 am

Quoting David L (Reply 20):
I was party to jamming a potato in someone's car exhaust once (he was asking for it innocent ). What a disappointment. I don't know how it happened but he started the engine at the second attempt and we found the potato a couple hundred yards down the road.

Heh .. Mythbusters tested this ... with the same exact result. Except in their case, the flying produce almost beaned one of the testers ...  Smile

(makes for great TV)

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 29):
OK, ... a Stability Control Parachute.

This is something, then, installed for the test regime? That's kind of cool ...  Smile

- litz

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