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BreninTW
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A340-600 RTO Test -- What Happened?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:24 pm

In this thread A380 Maximum Weight Rejected T/O Footage? (by Spruit Sep 19 2006 in Tech Ops) mention is made of the A340-600 RTO test video, and indications that something happened that Airbus wasn't too thrilled about being publically available to see -- that got my curiosity going ... so what happened in that test/video? Is there anywhere I could see that video?

I tried searching the forum, but didn't get any results.

Thanks
Bren
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: A340-600 RTO Test -- What Happened?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:22 pm

Thats a closely held secret and we will never know the answer. All Airbus supporters who have seen the video have been sworn to secrecy. All Boeing supporters who saw the video have been shot.  tapedshut 
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RichardPrice
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RE: A340-600 RTO Test -- What Happened?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:31 pm

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...wheels+after+RTO+test+failure.html

Quote:

After the maximum braking to a standstill required in the RTO test there must be a 5min wait before fire services are allowed to attend the aircraft. Fire broke out in the port main bogey of the Messier Dowty undercarriage, and several of the Goodrich wheels broke under the stress of increased tyre pressure before the tyres' fuse-plugs could operate. The aircraft was fitted with Michelin's new NZG radial tyres, which are believed to have performed adequately.

Debris damaged gear bay doors and the fuselage but not fuel tanks. The stopping distance, however, was within planned performance requirements, says Airbus. By 21 February the company had repaired the undercarriage and flown the aircraft back to Toulouse.

Airbus says the wheels have been shown to have an "insufficient strength margin" and will be reinforced. Also, heat-shielding between the brake discs and tyres is to be improved to slow heat transfer.

Exactly what a test is supposed to show.
 
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BreninTW
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RE: A340-600 RTO Test -- What Happened?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:35 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 2):

Thanks Richard -- I guessed that it did something it shouldn't have done, but wasn't sure what.

Bren
 
prebennorholm
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RE: A340-600 RTO Test -- What Happened?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:08 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 1):
Thats a closely held secret and we will never know the answer. All Airbus supporters who have seen the video have been sworn to secrecy. All Boeing supporters who saw the video have been shot.

There was pictures of the damage here on a.net the day after it happened four and a half years ago. They showed mostly some blown tired on the right hand MLG and some soot on the white painted fuselage.

There was also a long thread about it. I remember that one contributor asked "how (the hell) they could be allowed to land so brutally with a plane which was loaded so many tons over MLW". Another contributor explained correctly that it was for demonstrating the planned safety margin for ordinary ops.

Certification tests are brutal jobs. For most things airliners must demonstrate that structures are 50% stronger than the worst thing they will experience during ordinary legal ops. Certification tests must demonstrate those 50%. If it is 51%, then okay, if 49%, then we get spectacular pics or video.

Has everybody seen the video of the max vertical speed landing test of the DC-9 and the fuselage broke in two? Does somebody have the link?
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
N231YE
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RE: A340-600 RTO Test -- What Happened?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:20 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 4):
Has everybody seen the video of the max vertical speed landing test of the DC-9 and the fuselage broke in two? Does somebody have the link?

Is this it?

 
RichardPrice
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RE: A340-600 RTO Test -- What Happened?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 4):
Has everybody seen the video of the max vertical speed landing test of the DC-9 and the fuselage broke in two? Does somebody have the link?

This one?

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...830077767976&q=aircraft+crash+test
 
Lemurs
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RE: A340-600 RTO Test -- What Happened?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:32 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 4):
Has everybody seen the video of the max vertical speed landing test of the DC-9 and the fuselage broke in two? Does somebody have the link?

That one wasn't so much a test sussing out a failure though...I remember reading the NTSB report on it, and the pilot essentially lost his situational awareness and let his speed and sink rate fall way lower than the test required. The empenage was subjected to something well over 200% of it's design strength, so off it went...I'll see if I can find the link.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: A340-600 RTO Test -- What Happened?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:49 am

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 7):
That one wasn't so much a test sussing out a failure though...I remember reading the NTSB report on it, and the pilot essentially lost his situational awareness and let his speed and sink rate fall way lower than the test required. The empenage was subjected to something well over 200% of it's design strength, so off it went...I'll see if I can find the link.

That's right. Test pilots also make mistakes.

I remember reading some pretty scared comments by an A-380 test pilot about a year ago. He was going to perform the high speed flutter demonstation test on the 380. He had to dive it to Mach 0.96 at a pretty steep dive angle. But, as he said: "We do NOT want to get anywhere near Mach 0.97, which makes it a very demanding pilot job".

Test pilots often live on the edge, simply because it is their job to demonstrate the edge. On the edge there is very little or no room for error.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: A340-600 RTO Test -- What Happened?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:41 pm

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 8):
Test pilots often live on the edge, simply because it is their job to demonstrate the edge. On the edge there is very little or no room for error.

True a Tough job & it takes guts to do it.
regds
MEL
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airfoilsguy
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RE: A340-600 RTO Test -- What Happened?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 4):
Has everybody seen the video of the max vertical speed landing test of the DC-9 and the fuselage broke in two?

Did they survive that??
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: A340-600 RTO Test -- What Happened?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:41 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 10):
Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 4):
Has everybody seen the video of the max vertical speed landing test of the DC-9 and the fuselage broke in two?

Did they survive that??

No fatalities but I believe there were injuries. The plane stopped on the runway sans tail.

[Edited 2006-09-29 19:53:35]
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meister808
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RE: A340-600 RTO Test -- What Happened?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 10):
Did they survive that??

I seem to recall hearing a story about that where the pilots noticed the hard landing but didn't think anything of it until they stopped on the rollout and noticed many shocked people running towards the plane. At that point they figured there was something wrong, so they went for the cockpit door and had a real good "oh s*it" moment when they opened it to see daylight at the back end of the fuselage.

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Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
 
Lemurs
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RE: A340-600 RTO Test -- What Happened?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:46 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 11):
No fatalities but I believe there were injuries.

Copilot broke something if I am not mistaken...wrist, ankle, back...from getting tossed around. The guy who was onboard for measuring instruments and whatnot hurt his back too, if I'm not mistaken...but everyone came out in one piece.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: A340-600 RTO Test -- What Happened?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting Meister808 (Reply 12):
noticed the hard landing but didn't think anything of it until they stopped

It looks like the nose gear collapsed, they would noticed that, i'm sure.  Smile

Dominic
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