Beaucaire
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Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:39 am

Are there any recent views of the assembly of the 787 available?
It would be interesting to see the progress on the assembly to get an idea on the shedule as compared to suggested first flight.
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Beaucaire
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:00 am

...must become a stealth -aircraft ....
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WingedMigrator
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:39 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
...must become a stealth -aircraft ....

It is a black project after all Big grin

Roll out is in just about 200 days. I would also like to see some recent pictures.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:25 pm

I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:35 pm

Thanks Hawk for the photo- which is quite old ..
I read in a technical forum related to Carbon-fiber technology, that the under-belly of the 787 would get a skin merely 2 mm thick ....(while other sections like door-frames would be as thick as 8 mm )
It is hard to believe that a 2 mm thick fuselage could sustain a hit from a service-truck without major structural repair.
Now -again in this forum,which seems very calm,technical and down-to -earth ,the possibility of riveted repairs occur for the 787 -but that's contrary to initial claims that the repairs on the 787 would be "easy to fix.."
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zvocio79
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:43 pm

Now when they hit the plane with a tow truck instead of yelling "sheet metal" now you gonna have to yell "fiber glass". in any event, planes are not designed to be struck by tow trucks, service trucks or the shit truck, though careless people are all over and accidents always occur.
Good luck to the fiber glass guys, they'll have tons of work and tons of dust to breath during their repairs.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:27 am

I work on the 787, but can't say that I do anything that looks interesting at all. The parts that I work on look like copper wire that was run over by about 3 different cars and is all twisted in weird ways. No one that did not know the exact model fo the stator in the electrical generator would have any clue what it was. So I can't say that my work looks particularly interesting.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 4):
I read in a technical forum related to Carbon-fiber technology, that the under-belly of the 787 would get a skin merely 2 mm thick ....(while other sections like door-frames would be as thick as 8 mm )
It is hard to believe that a 2 mm thick fuselage could sustain a hit from a service-truck without major structural repair.

Material thickness has little to do with strength when you are comparing different materials. Carbon Fiber composites are very strong, but they don't get their strength from thickness like steel or aluminum does. A carbon fiber structure is more like sewing a sweater together. Now it will be very weak when it comes to an isolated thing smashing in to it. You can't just rivet a patch in place and have it be fixed. Drilling holes in carbon fiber makes it weaker.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 6):
Material thickness has little to do with strength when you are comparing different materials. Carbon Fiber composites are very strong, but they don't get their strength from thickness like steel or aluminum does. A carbon fiber structure is more like sewing a sweater together. Now it will be very weak when it comes to an isolated thing smashing in to it. You can't just rivet a patch in place and have it be fixed. Drilling holes in carbon fiber makes it weaker.

Thanks- I appreciate the answer...
Now hwo would the patches on CF repairs look like-riveting or glue ??
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Starlionblue
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:35 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 6):
A carbon fiber structure is more like sewing a sweater together.



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 7):

Thanks- I appreciate the answer...
Now hwo would the patches on CF repairs look like-riveting or glue ??

The local granny comes along with her knitting gear of course  Wink
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
2H4
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:52 am



RoseFlyer, do you happen to know whether the 787 will incorporate nanotubes into the carbon fiber?



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roseflyer
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 7):
Now hwo would the patches on CF repairs look like-riveting or glue ??

I don't know how the carbon fiber structure will be repaired. I'm not a material specialist. I don't work with carbon fiber, but rather work on the generators for the 787 among other planes, so I mostly deal with steel and am far more familiar with its properties.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 8):
The local granny comes along with her knitting gear of course

Haha. It's a little more sophisticated than that. The carbon fiber is similar to other composites in that there is a matrix structure that holds together carbon fiber strands, which look like white whiskers. The carbon fibers are little strands that are contained within the matrix structure. The tensile strength of the material is as strong as the super strong carbon fiber. That means that it can support tension very well. It is hard to pull apart. However the compressive strength is only as strong as the matrix structure. In the A380, they are using aluminum, however they are using a different structure on the 787 that does not have the same properties. Therefore I don't know how it is to be repaired.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 9):
RoseFlyer, do you happen to know whether the 787 will incorporate nanotubes into the carbon fiber?

No I do not know. I don't know what a nanotube is.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
2H4
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:23 am




Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 10):
No I do not know. I don't know what a nanotube is.

Here you go.



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Beaucaire
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:16 pm

2H4 -very interesting stuff on Nanotubes-thanks for the link...
The potential strength of this material is unbelievable !
Lets steel look like mashed paper...
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LimaNiner
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:35 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 9):
do you happen to know whether the 787 will incorporate nanotubes into the carbon fiber?

It was my understanding that carbon nanotubes are still years away from commercial applications...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_nanotube
 
2H4
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:03 am




Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 13):
It was my understanding that carbon nanotubes are still years away from commercial applications...

That may be true regarding the aerospace industry, but nanotube use is quite common in the cycling industry. There's a lot of give and take between the two industries....the aerospace industry invents technologies, but years of certification are required before the technologies are actually utilized.

During that phase, other industries (such as the cycling industry) get to experiment with the stuff. It's interesting to follow the development of various materials and technologies between industries.



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kalvado
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:11 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 14):

That may be true regarding the aerospace industry, but nanotube use is quite common in the cycling industry.

Last time I checked, noone was making nanotubes by the pound... And I don't believe Boeing will be interested in milligramm quantities.
 
2H4
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:15 pm




Quoting Kalvado (Reply 15):
Last time I checked, noone was making nanotubes by the pound

Easton is. That's not necessarily relevant to the aerospace industry, but it's a sign that progress is being made with that technology.  Smile



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lightsaber
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:21 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 4):
the possibility of riveted repairs occur for the 787 -but that's contrary to initial claims that the repairs on the 787 would be "easy to fix.."

Actually, rivit repairs w/glue aren't that tough with carbon fiber. Yes drilling weakens it. The fix requires abrading the surface (to create a bonding surface, placing the patch on "wet (w/epoxy)", and riviting it in place. Note: The rivits are temporary to secure the patch while the glue sets, not as the primary final structure. Yes, the patch is weaker than the original structure but there is enough margin for the patch to hold until the next D-check. Small patches would just be applied wet.

The advantage of carbon fiber is many of the current impacts that dent aluminum and thus require a repair will simply bounce off the carbon fiber. I'm not saying these impacts won't weaken the plane. Its just that carbon fiber isn't as sensitive as aluminum due to its rigidity and ability to resist buckling/ripping.

However, I'm not on the 787 program, so perhaps the repair technique has evolved? Anyone?  scratchchin 

Lets face it, the damage people here are discussing would put an aluminum airplane out of service for days!

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 6):
Carbon Fiber composites are very strong, but they don't get their strength from thickness like steel or aluminum does.

Ummm... Moment of inertia is moment of inertia. What you're refering to is the tendency to buckle. Carbon fiber's rigidity allows for thinner skin. Not because the stress is less but because it has less of a tendency to buckle.

Now where are the pictures of the 787?  Wink

Lightsaber
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roseflyer
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 17):
Ummm... Moment of inertia is moment of inertia. What you're refering to is the tendency to buckle. Carbon fiber's rigidity allows for thinner skin. Not because the stress is less but because it has less of a tendency to buckle.

Huh? Stress is the same. I'm not sure what you mean about Carbon Fiber's rigidity. Carbon fiber is only strong in one direction. I don't feel like getting out my mechanics textbook and looking up the difference in modulus of rigidity, but Carbon Fiber is known for its tensile strength. It has no compressive strength. All compressive strength comes from the matrix structure. The loads on a pressurized fuselage are tensile, so that is why carbon fiber is a great material. I'm not sure what moment of inertia has to do with thickness.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
firennice
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:03 am

If you are looking for photos of the airplaine unless you are out of japan you wont see any. They are working on the wings and i believe started a few months ago on plane #1.

Here stateside Spirit produced the barrel for plane #1 about 2 weeks ago. It was removed from the autoclave and its mold/mandrel. Our engineer was there as they opened the mandrel/mold.

After inspection it moves to the drill and trim machine to take it to shape before drilling and attaching the interior frame. The drill and trim machine should get it next week, if i heard correctly.

All the photos you have seen were mockups, one runs, parts for testing, destructive testing, etc.

Ser #001 is just on the starting blocks
 
2H4
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:15 am




Quoting Firennice (Reply 19):
The drill and trim machine should get it next week, if i heard correctly.

Any chance you can get hold of a window blank for me?  eyebrow 



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N231YE
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RE: Any Recent 787 Pictures..?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:53 am

This seems to be a proof-of-concept section; not to be used on a 787. But since this is section is made of actual composites, it should be a good indication of what is going on right now.


http://www.boeing.com/commercial/gallery/787/k63374.html

Quote:
LE BOURGET, France, June 13, 2005 -- The first 787 Dreamliner nose section has been completed in Wichita, Kan. The section, a single composite part with a high degree of contour, is one element of the development activity being conducted to prove manufacturing techniques for the all-new jetliner. The team will cut doors and windows in the weeks ahead and conduct thorough testing to ensure that all expectations for reliability and accuracy are met.

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