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Vio
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Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:50 am

Hi,

This Satruday, after a flight from Calgary Alberta, I've done the unthinkable. While stopping in Regina, Saskatchewan, I brought my log book in to be stamped by the FOB rep. and I accidentally spilled coffee on it. It's not ruined, but it's stained.

How aesthetic is your log-book?

Do employers ask for your "original" log-book, or can you just give them an electronic version? I would not want someone to judge me by the condition on my log-book. It was a pure accident and I've taken so much care of it... obviously not enough.

Regards,

Vio

(Edit for spelling)

[Edited 2006-10-23 18:55:58]
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
320tech
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:57 am

If you have a number of pages that are stained to the point of being unusable, just zed them out - ie, draw a line through the top row, draw a line through the bottom row, then join them diagonally.

If it's not that bad, I wouldn't worry about it. If logbooks were supposed to be pristine, TC wouldn't make us carry them around.

Whatever you do, don't remove the pages.
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
 
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Vio
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting 320tech (Reply 1):
If you have a number of pages that are stained to the point of being unusable

Oh,

Nothing along those lines. If you have the log-book closed, you can see the stains on the sides. Once opened, it has minor stains on the top corners. None of the writing is affected and the pages are perfectly clean (in the writing section)

Vio
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
320tech
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:29 am

Then you have nothing to worry about. I can't imagine any prospective employer being more concerned with the appearance of your logbook than your flying ability.
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
 
lowrider
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:33 am

My logbooks have a few coffee stains on them as well. There are also line outs and corrections. I keep everything in black ink, for uniformity and for good contast when making copies. Most employers will understand that a log book is a working document that can span years and will not be pristine.
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DeltaGuy
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:38 am

Mine too is scarred and worn- I should have bought the smaller one so I could abuse a new one instead of my older one. Mine has corrections, white-outs, a few stains, and the cover is starting to go- but it's mine, and it's a treasured keepsake- so, I'll take care of it until I fill it up and have to buy a new one.

If you've ever seen the movie One Six Right, I like how the guy puts it, "This is a love story"...tis true.

DeltaGuy
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"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
airtran737
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:09 am

My log bok looks like it took a trip to the Hanoi Hilton, but as long as I can still fill it in, and the F.A.A. can make sense of it then I dont care.
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futurecaptain
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:37 am

I know one retired airline captain whos logbook I've seen from his training. There were so many numbers X'ed out and re-written all over it looked like a bowling scorecard. lol. And a very good one too.  Smile
But anyway, he says at his first airline job he was questioned about the corrections and he told the interviewer something along the lines that he was never good at math, even adding small numbers in the logbook, but could fly a plane very well. Well, he got hired and went on to fly for Eastern for some 20-30 years.

Be honest about your logbook to a potential employer and I'm sure a little stain wont be much of a problem.
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lowrider
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:44 am

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 5):
white-outs

I have been told that is a real no-no when it comes to log book corrections. No, I don't have the FARs in front of me, but I think that obliteration of an entry is incorrect, and that the line through and initial method is the only legal way to make corrections.
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:33 am

I only got about 20 out of 100 pages in my logbook filled out, but I take great care to keep it in pristine condition. All the entries are made exclusively in black ink, and I try to avoid having to do messy corrections by writing the total hours in pencil first, and then double check and finally write over the pencil in black ink, and erase the pencil marking. I'm pretty proud of my logbook. (or maybe I'm too anal Big grin )
 
SlamClick
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:31 am

Why fret over a few stains. Why would you want an inexperienced-looking, low-time logbook. Just as pilots are better when they have a few creases and coffee stains, so are logbooks. You are lucky. You came by your coffee stains honestly. Some guys have to apply fake coffee stains to their logbooks so as not to look like a rookie. We old hands can spot that a mile away!

My first logbook was a white plastic giveaway. It was handed to me with the first entry already recorded by my instructor. That is the only reason I kept it. It filled up in Vietnam and my sister sent me a more proper, dark blue hardbound. It lasted a couple years before filling up, coincidentally about two entries before I left active duty.

The five books I've filled since are larger and have a few more columns. The spine has separated on one, so I handle it very carefully. The rest are a hodgepodge. Mostly black ink, occasionally some other color. The entries are as neat as I could make them at two in the morning at the bravo fox echo Holiday Inn. If I could vouch for the page and column totals I'd be a CPA instead of a pilot. I've told a potetial employer exactly that in an interview and got the job. Something about having a million hours and thirty minutes in a plane identical to theirs, over their very route structure seems to fly nicely in an interview.

Some of the guys I've flown with in the military and at the airlines were just far to cool to care about logbooks. I thoroughly enjoy mine.

But then I always did like reading fiction.  Smile (kidding!!!)
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:54 am

So when you take a logbook to an airline interview, what do they do? Verify that you flew certain planes, or just have a general look at the thing and more focus on the last page & totals?

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 8):
I have been told that is a real no-no when it comes to log book corrections. No, I don't have the FARs in front of me, but I think that obliteration of an entry is incorrect, and that the line through and initial method is the only legal way to make corrections.

Oh I hope not- these were just addition errors, and some clarifications with different things (different pax I had, etc). Hopefully it won't bite me in the ass, too late now though.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 10):
But then I always did like reading fiction. (kidding!!!)

Fly what you can, log what you need, right?  Wink

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
lowrider
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 11):
So when you take a logbook to an airline interview, what do they do? Verify that you flew certain planes, or just have a general look at the thing and more focus on the last page & totals?

In the past, they have looked at the aircraft I have flown, then asked me specific questions about them to test my knowledge. They have asked about some of the more unusual airports I have been to. They have also looked at recency of experience, and to see if my level of knowledge roughly corresponds with the level of experience I claim to have. At least twice, the interviewer knew the examiner I had for a checkride, and asked specific questions about the examiner and the ride itself.
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atct
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:17 am

I left mine in the car on my seat with the window open once. Rained like heck. So logbook number one (I continued to use it) is stained different colors of red and orange lol. (Im on #2 now).

ATCT
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YWG
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 pm

Quoting ATCT (Reply 13):
I left mine in the car on my seat with the window open once. Rained like heck. So logbook number one (I continued to use it) is stained different colors of red and orange lol. (Im on #2 now).

Exactly why, ever since my first days of gliding/flying with the Royal Canadian Air Cadets, I've kept my log books in a zip lock bag no matter where they are along with my licences.

As for aesthetics.....I once tried to only use 1 color of ink...that last about 2 weeks.
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Dalmd88
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:44 am

I know this is a pilot orientated thread but I'm a mechanic and I bet I write more in an aircraft logbook than any pilot so I'll and my two cents.

It MUST be in BLACK ballpoint ink. Blue is for Lawyers and Realators. Gel type are non permenant. Those that have problem with keeping their personal pilot logbooks in one type of ink should think about investing in one. I prefer the click type. I tend to keep the same pen for about eight-ten months.

Next, write like a human. Learn how to print like a draftsman so any idiot can read it. Save the fancy crap for the loveletters to your signif others.

Finally, when writing in an aircraft logbook give as much info as you can. On a complex system give us a little more than INOP if you can.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 15):

I believe you are talking about an aircraft's maintenance log.

You do know that we are talking about pilots' personal flight time logbooks, in which we record the flights we make in any aircraft?
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
lowrider
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:28 am

Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 15):
Finally, when writing in an aircraft logbook give as much info as you can. On a complex system give us a little more than INOP if you can.

Odd, I have been told the exact opposite, to avoid leading a mechanic to any false conclusions. I have been told more than once that, "you are not a mechanic, don't tell me what is wrong." Now I know my systems ground school doesn't go into the depth that a mechanic's school might, so when I am handing anything over for mx, I try and play nice.
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Curmudgeon
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:06 pm

My log books are coffee stained, illegible, filled with sidebar notes and stapled in photos of crews, planes and places now long gone. The last time I had a job interview it became a reminiscing session because of the photos, and we killed too much time trading "no shit, there we were..." stories. Got the job though.
Jets are for kids
 
SlamClick
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:27 pm

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 18):
filled with sidebar notes and stapled in photos of crews, planes and places now long gone.

I kind of wish I'd done that. Instead I put little cryptic marks on some entries to remind me of something really wonderful (or terrible) that transpired. I've also carried a camera most of my career. I just finished framing pictures of 30 actual airplanes that were most significant to my life and career. Who knew that pictures of the airplanes were going to be available (even on this website) thirty years later. I wish I'd taken more pictures of the people and maybe not as many of the planes.

Just last year though, I discovered that I had a dozen negatives of pictures taken by a close friend who was killed in Vietnam shortly after the pictures were taken. A couple of prints from these negatives now have prominent display at my home.

I've always been struck by how much a logbook entry can convey in just a few pen strokes.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
2H4
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:44 pm




Quoting Lowrider (Reply 17):
Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 15):
Finally, when writing in an aircraft logbook give as much info as you can. On a complex system give us a little more than INOP if you can.

Odd, I have been told the exact opposite, to avoid leading a mechanic to any false conclusions.

Perhaps the best solution is to avoid drawing conclusions/suggesting theories, and instead, make an effort to describe the exact conditions of the aircraft and environment surrounding the squawk.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 19):
I just finished framing pictures of 30 actual airplanes that were most significant to my life and career.

Captain Slam, I'd like to make a humble request. Actually, I'd like to extend the request to all of our experienced Techoppers. I'd love to see you put together a user-created photo album, featuring examples of each aircraft type you've flown...even if it was just a trip around the pattern. All you have to do is search for each aircraft type, and click "Add to album".

I've made a comparatively unimpressive one, accessible from my profile.

Anyway, I think it would be really interesting to see what we've all had the opportunity to fly. It could produce some interesting conversation.

So what do you guys say? Good idea?



2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
SlamClick
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 20):

"Relatively unimpressive?" A Meyers OTW impresses me!

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 20):
I'd love to see you put together a user-created photo album, featuring examples of each aircraft type you've flown...even if it was just a trip around the pattern.



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 20):
Good idea?

Probably an interesting idea but maybe a thread of its own. Not sure I would be willing to do this. I've always tried to maintain some distance from past and present employers so that I could feel free to post more honest (blunt) responses here. Some types I've flown were not flown by very many companies and my employment history would become pretty clear.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
2H4
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:58 am




Quoting SlamClick (Reply 21):
"Relatively unimpressive?" A Meyers OTW impresses me!

Well, ok, but I'd trade an OTW flight for a flight in the majority of the things you've flown...  Smile

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 21):
Some types I've flown were not flown by very many companies and my employment history would become pretty clear.

Ah, I hadn't thought about that. Excellent, albiet unfortunate point. Perhaps we could limit our albums to "non-incriminating" types...



2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
BoeingOnFinal
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RE: Quality And Aesthetics Of Your Log Book...

Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:40 pm

Having a coffee stain on your logbook just shows that you are responsible enough to wanna stay awake on duty  Smile
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