USairways16BWI
Posts: 921
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 4:58 am

No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:19 am

i would be worried if we started our decent, put down the gear and started approach, and still not putting down the flaps. i came across this pic
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Anthony Jackson



If this is not that unusual, what would the circumstances have to be to land without flaps? And if its not, what is the problem? Light weight? strong headwinds?
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17087
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:22 am

The only case I can think of is if the flaps aren't working. The angle of incidence seems higher than usual as well.

Take-offs without flaps are possible in some aircraft (F70/100, A300) but I don't think they are kosher on the 330.

[Edited 2006-11-01 20:23:56]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:32 am

I am not so sure this is an approach, looks more like take off to me.
There is quite some jetblast visible which to me indicates take off power instead of flight idle running engines.
Also the angle of attack seems a bit weird for a flare.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5005
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:37 am

The note on the picture indicates a flapless landing.

Most likely, he's using a moderate power setting and a high angle of attack to arrest his descent and slow his airspeed down at the same time; i.e., he's on the back side of the power curve.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3363
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:37 am

Because a flap asymmetry would be disastrous to flight, there are sensitive systems in place to stop it. Normally the flaps are driven by a single hydraulic motor in the undercarriage bay, driving rotating shafts out to the flaps. On each end of these shafts are rotary transmitters which tell thr Flap Control Unit how much they are going round. If the shafts become out of sync, the FCU cuts power to the Flap Motor and the flaps stop. Beside the transmitters are brakes that come on as well. Quite often , on the Tristar for example, these brakes can only be reset by a mechanic climbing up to them with a spanner. So a defect in the flap system and the flaps are stopped until you land. So a flapless landing can ensue. This is not so common nowadays, but not unusual in the past. It means you have to land much faster, and need a longer runway to do it.
The slats are driven and controlled by a similar system on the Tristar and also have brakes.
This is all very necessary because if one wing's flaps drove out, and not the other the aircraft would roll well beyond the aileron authority.
 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:46 am

I know how the various systems work guys, it's my day time job.
Also I know that if you don't have flaps due to a failure you have little to choose from.
Still looking at this photo my impresion is: Take Off.  Smile

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 3):
The note on the picture indicates a flapless landing.

People can do weird things for a few extra hits. Top Rated Photos (by Javibi Nov 1 2006 in Aviation Photography)
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
Ralgha
Posts: 1589
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 1999 6:20 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
The angle of incidence seems higher than usual as well.

???

You mean the angle of attack? Pitch angle? The angle of incidence is the same as every other A330-301 out there.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:31 am

Ive done a no-flap landing in a Saab 340. Hydr. Failure. It happens occaisonally. All ya have to do is fly the appch a little flatter and faster.

ATCT
Trikes are for kids!
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 5):
Still looking at this photo my impresion is: Take Off.

Dude, do you know how an airplane flys? Not having flaps on takeoff could be disastrous if the plane is not designed for flap less takeoffs. It won't be airborne even it's going well above the normal takeoff speed. Not having flaps on landing is not a big deal since the plane is already airborne.
 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:42 am

Quoting ATCT (Reply 7):
All ya have to do is fly the appch a little flatter and faster.

Correct, now look at the pitch angle.
Which is why is why I think it looks strange for a flare even in case of a forced flapless landing.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 8):
Dude, do you know how an airplane flys?

Temper your voice a little young boy.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 8):
Not having flaps on landing is not a big deal since the plane is already airborne.

Back to the study books my friend.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
BoeingOnFinal
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:47 am

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:12 am

From what it looks like, the AoA is to much to land, it would be to great a risk. Isn't the procedure to increase Vref speed, and then the AoA would be decreased?

Might get tricked by the photo, but it looks close to 10 degrees of pitch, which would be close to 11-12 AoA if the plane was on approach.

I know little about A330, but a 737 rotates 3 degrees per second on rotate point, witch would look pretty similare to this on a takeoff.
norwegianpilot.blogspot.com
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:15 am

No-flap landings were a QRH procedure so I don't have the good skinny in front of me, but they were pretty serious - very high landing speeds. Might even have been the reason for the big Bus having 235 MPH tires where the usual standard is 225.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
I am not so sure this is an approach, looks more like take off to me.

As you well know, takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory. A no-flap landing might become necessary (What else are you going to do? Leave it up there?) But a no-flap takeoff is not an authorized maneuver in the A-330.

The only real question here is why the photographer didn't get the firetrucks in the shot. They sure as hell should have been chasing this plane.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 4):
Quite often , on the Tristar for example, these brakes can only be reset by a mechanic climbing up to them with a spanner.

Steve,

On the L-1011 only the slat brakes require a spanner (9/16") it pushes the plunger in and unlocks the brake. The flaps have a knurled knob that extends and can be pushed in by hand.

I have a funny story about the L-1011 slat asymmetry brake. I spent over twenty years in L-1011 product support and the flight controls was one of the systems I covered. In Product Support we were on call 24 hours a day. So on Christmas day about 1986 we had just sat down to Christmas dinner, when I got a phone call from a ATA mechanic in Minneapolis. He asked how many foot pounds torque does it take to reset the slat asymmetry brake? I said I didn't know exactly but a 9/16" wench (spanner) pulled with one hand is all I ever used. He said he weighed 180 pounds and he had hung on a one foot long breaker bar and the brake would not reset. I told him to change the brake because there must be something broken inside and when back to my now cold Christmas dinner. About two hours later the same mechanic calls me back and says he has finally reset the brake and the system been checked out. Then he proceeded to tell me that its 20 degrees below zero in Minneapolis and by putting a heater on the brake for an freed it up.

As for the original picture, the A330 is landing, the horizontal stabilized would be trimmed further nose down if it was taking off.
 
CRGsFuture
Posts: 513
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:04 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:21 am

Well the question is now, wouldn't pitching the airplane up at this speed allow some of the thrist to bleed off into lift. I know when I do no flap landing with the C172 my instructor tells me to pitch up a little more to allow air to bleed off and try to get to the 65 kts speed.
Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:33 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 12):
the horizontal stabilized would be trimmed further
nose down if it was taking off.

Not only that, but if it was taking off, it would still be solidly on the ground. Ground run would be well beyond the end of the runway and VR higher than tire speed limit.

Quoting ATCT (Reply 7):
Ive done a no-flap landing in a Saab 340.



Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 13):
no flap landing with the C172

Swept-wing A-330 vs straight-wing airplanes, virtually no basis at all for comparison. HUGE differences in flying characteristics.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17087
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:35 am

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 6):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
The angle of incidence seems higher than usual as well.

???

You mean the angle of attack? Pitch angle? The angle of incidence is the same as every other A330-301 out there.

Brainfart sorry.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 11):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
I am not so sure this is an approach, looks more like take off to me.

As you well know, takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory

I agree. But I didn't say that first thing. Dang forum automation.  Wink

BTW nice to have you back Captain Click.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3363
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 12):
On the L-1011 only the slat brakes require a spanner (9/16") it pushes the plunger in and unlocks the brake. The flaps have a knurled knob that extends and can be pushed in by hand.

Must be 20 years since I reset a L1011 Flap brake. Sorry got them back to front.
When we first had the A320 in 1988, we regularly got slats locked on engine start. Like every 10th departure. They have a mechanical lock, but you can reset them through the CFDS in the cockpit.
But they must have modified them because it hasn't happened for years.
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:08 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
The angle of incidence seems higher than usual as well.

The "Angle of Incidence" is the FIXED angle that exist between center line of the aircraft and cord line of the wing. So it can't look higher than usual, because it FIXED.
 
runway777
Posts: 192
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:34 am

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 5):

i agree
"kalli, be the best pilot you can be, who happens to be a girl" -Joe White
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:33 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 14):
Swept-wing A-330 vs straight-wing airplanes, virtually no basis at all for comparison. HUGE differences in flying characteristics

Oh so right, In the MD-11 a no flap ldg is a big deal where you want to be as light as possible because Vapp will be very high and close to max tire spd. A long rnwy is needed and very little flare to prevent any floating.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
Posts: 3960
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:18 am

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:41 am

No flap landings in the CRJ are a big deal as well.. our max tire speed is 182... at heavier landing weights you are running right up on that speed.

Same technique as Cosmic mentioned... it is definitely a situation where you want to have the trucks standing by. Unfortunately on the CRJ a no flap landing is the most common emergency... I believe there are a couple occurences a month.

I have been pretty lucky and have only had my flaps fail at 20, which is a faster approach (in the 160's at most normal weights) but not as critical as a completely clean wing.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17087
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:54 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 17):
uoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
The angle of incidence seems higher than usual as well.

The "Angle of Incidence" is the FIXED angle that exist between center line of the aircraft and cord line of the wing. So it can't look higher than usual, because it FIXED.

Yeah I knew that. Just had a brainfart.

Then again, I can think of two aircraft with variable angle of incidence.

[Edited 2006-11-02 00:55:05]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:06 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
Then again, I can think of two aircraft with variable angle of incidence.

Well, if the chord line is a straight line from trailing edge to leading edge all airplanes with trailing edge flaps, leading edge flaps, slats or droops have variable incidence.

BTW I can only think of the wonderful F-8 Crusader. What am I overlooking?
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:14 am



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 22):
BTW I can only think of the wonderful F-8 Crusader. What am I overlooking?

The Martin XB-51:






Although, I can think of one more.....



2H4


Edit: Correction.....two more....




[Edited 2006-11-02 01:16:23]
Intentionally Left Blank
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:20 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 23):
The Martin XB-51:

You're not talking about the big crack that showed up in the wing when William Holden was flying it?
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:25 am




Quoting SlamClick (Reply 24):
You're not talking about the big crack that showed up in the wing when William Holden was flying it?

No, that crack supplemented the stock variable-incidence wing with which it came equipped from the factory.  Smile

There are actually four additional aircraft that are/were equipped with variable-incidence wings.....



2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
oly720man
Posts: 5743
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:13 am

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:26 am

Here are some other aircraft landing at around the same point, with flaps, for the sake of comparison....


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © David James Clelford




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © David James Clelford

wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17087
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:33 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 22):

BTW I can only think of the wonderful F-8 Crusader. What am I overlooking?

The other one I had in mind is the Corsair, which in the end is a modded Crusader.

Trust 2H4 to go into orbit as usual. Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:48 am

The Corsair II (A-7) did not have the variable Angle of Incidence the F-8 Crusaders did.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © David Ilott

 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:53 am




Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 27):
The other one I had in mind is the Corsair, which in the end is a modded Crusader.

I didn't think the Corsair had a variable-incidence wing....  confused 

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 27):
Trust 2H4 to go into orbit as usual.

Heh heh...I do what I can...  biggrin 




Here are the others I've come up with:




Supermarine Seagull:




Supermarine 322 (S.24/37) Dumbo:

http://i12.tinypic.com/3yyqqdg.jpg





And, of course, all of these contraptions:




 Wink



2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17087
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 28):
The Corsair II (A-7) did not have the variable Angle of Incidence the F-8 Crusaders did.

Learn something new every day. Thx!
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
User avatar
vzlet
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:34 am

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:07 am

Incidence on the Martin XB-51 was adjustable:
"That's so stupid! If they're so secret, why are they out where everyone can see them?" - my kid
 
AJ
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 2):
I am not so sure this is an approach, looks more like take off to me.
There is quite some jetblast visible which to me indicates take off power instead of flight idle running engines.
Also the angle of attack seems a bit weird for a flare.



Quoting Aviopic (Reply 5):
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 3):
The note on the picture indicates a flapless landing.

People can do weird things for a few extra hits.
Top Rated Photos (by Javibi Nov 1 2006 in Aviation Photography)

I would have though my portfolio held enough credibility for you not to suggest such a thing, but just to satisfy you:


 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:24 am



Man, I love that last shot, AJ. Nice work on all of them!



2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:55 am

Those A330's are really hot, they can smoke their tires on takeoff.

By the way AJ great photos.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:35 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 24):
You're not talking about the big crack that showed up in the wing when William Holden was flying it?

You know, for eons, I've always wondered what that aircraft from "Towards The Unknown" was--now I know (finally!)  Wink

Back to the original topic, wasn't there a recent thread about a passenger(s) freaking out because the A300 they were on was landing or taking off (can't recall which) with zero flaps, and that, for the A300, zero flaps were a normal setting?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
User avatar
vzlet
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:34 am

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:39 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 23):
The Martin XB-51



Quoting Vzlet (Reply 31):
Incidence on the Martin XB-51 was adjustable

Not sure how I missed 2H4's heavily illustrated post. Sorry about that!
"That's so stupid! If they're so secret, why are they out where everyone can see them?" - my kid
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:45 pm

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 14):
Not only that, but if it was taking off, it would still be solidly on the ground.

And, much further down the runway.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
AJ
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 33):
Man, I love that last shot, AJ. Nice work on all of them!



2H4



Quoting 474218 (Reply 34):
Those A330's are really hot, they can smoke their tires on takeoff.

By the way AJ great photos.

Thanks very much guys!
 
onetogo
Posts: 286
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:40 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:18 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 35):
Back to the original topic, wasn't there a recent thread about a passenger(s) freaking out because the A300 they were on was landing or taking off (can't recall which) with zero flaps, and that, for the A300, zero flaps were a normal setting?

Yeah, was pretty amusing. As far as I know, the A300 departs regularly with no flaps, however they do throw all of the slats out.
 
thegreatchecko
Posts: 689
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:34 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 4):
This is not so common nowadays, but not unusual in the past. It means you have to land much faster, and need a longer runway to do it.

True, but some of the newer electronically controlled aircraft, like the A320 you refered to, can be quite tempermental. I was co-pilot on a brand new aircraft that was having electrical signaling issues that caused the flaps to fail.

As I am sure you are intimately familiar, the computers work great when everything is "happy", but the moment something goes just a bit off, it goes to hell.

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 13):
Well the question is now, wouldn't pitching the airplane up at this speed allow some of the thrist to bleed off into lift. I know when I do no flap landing with the C172 my instructor tells me to pitch up a little more to allow air to bleed off and try to get to the 65 kts speed.

Yes it does, but unlike in a Cessna 172, where lowering the flaps may allow you to fly 20 or so knots slower without stalling at max weights, flaps in a heavier swept wing aircraft allow you to fly 60 maybe 70 knots slower, especially when they are heavy.

In other words, flaps affect the lift generating characteristics of the wing much more dramatically in a heavy jet than in a straight wing cessna. Without the flaps out, the plane simply will not fly anywhere near as slow as it would with flaps, thus the higher landing speeds.

I never was too good at the technical aerodynamics explanation, but these usually worked pretty well to get the point across without going too nuts and getting too complicated.  Smile

Checko
"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
Posts: 3960
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:18 am

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:49 pm

So about those zero flap landings..

I did not one.. but TWO today. Same plane broke twice. 170 knots and 173 knots respectively down final. I'll post more later.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
AgentM
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:58 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:28 pm

No doubt it is landing, if you look at a larger image, you can see taxiway A3 past the airplane which is near the 16R end of the runway.

Here's a sat image centered on A3 -
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...n=0.016819,0.043259&t=h&iwloc=addr
 
EridanMan
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:49 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:39 pm

How Fundamentally Similar are no-flaps landings in a Heavy to their smaller cousins? (PA-28-140).

I did a half dozen flap-less landings in my Cherokee a few days ago for the first time, and as a low-time pilot, I'll tell you- the touchdown deck-angle was almost scary (I was honestly concerned about a tail-strike, and I couldn't see the runway at all).

It seems to me that this bird is the exact same type of configuration, and it strikes me as simple physics... Flaps increase drag and lift... Flying at a higher AOA increases lift and drag... same basic principle, flaps just make it a lot easier.
 
CF188A
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 12:27 am

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:50 am

could this just have been like a 40+ MPH headwind ... or something of the sort... in which flaps would actually complicate a landing. I have been on approach many times where I felt as though i could walk faster than the plane itself. Have you ever flown , your aware of your quick approach speeds, the flaps drop quickly, and it feels as though u are going 90 degrees directly up ? The compensation required is obviously a greater pitch. Lets say the winds were extremely strong or gusting like crazy no allowing for a stable landing, could it be possible they would land with no flaps? Just a question so dont rip me apart.
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow~ RIP ... LJFM
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:02 am

this a/c is France registered, i bet it was being tested for delivery to a new owner  Wink
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
AJ
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: No Flaps Landings...

Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:09 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 45):
this a/c is France registered, i bet it was being tested for delivery to a new owner

Sorry if you are joking, but most of PAL's widebody Airbusses carry French Overseas regsitrations (F-O).

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DocLightning and 14 guests