columba
Posts: 5061
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

Some Questions About Flight Engineers

Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:59 pm

After reading that NW was retiring their Dc 10s and passing them over to ATA
and given the fact that there are still some classic aircraft flying around needing the 3rd man in the cockpit even with major carriers such as ANA, QF, JAL or AF (mostly hauling cargo but some are still passenger service -not for long since most 747-300s are either replaced with 777-300s or A380s).
Are there any new trained flight engineers with these airlines or are most flight engineers close to retirement age ? If there are still just recently trained flight engineers with these airlnes I was wondering when was the last time a major airline hired and trained flight engineers and when did they stopped their flight engineer training ?
Have younger flight engineers a chance to start a second carreer as F/O when the last "classic" aircraft is retired ?
What was the last three man cockpit airliner delivered by Boeing and MDD (no military only civil aircraft) and who took delivery of it ?
I suppose for Boeing it was either a 747 or one of the few 767s with the optional flight engineers panel.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
redcordes
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:28 am

RE: Some Questions About Flight Engineers

Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:24 pm

I believe that some pilots may opt for an FE position when they reach age 60. They could be a source of some FE's as they retire.
"The only source of knowledge is experience." A. Einstein "Science w/o religion is lame. Religion w/o science is blind."
 
charlienorth
Posts: 1057
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:24 am

RE: Some Questions About Flight Engineers

Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
Have younger flight engineers a chance to start a second carreer as F/O when the last "classic" aircraft is retired ?

In the State's there are not too many career FE's left,there are probably some over 60 pilot's at the panel at NWA and they will have to retire if they don't go to the 747 classic,otherwise they are pilots on the seniority list and when the airplanes go away these folks will be given the opportunity to go where their seniority carries them.

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
If there are still just recently trained flight engineers with these airlnes I was wondering when was the last time a major airline hired and trained flight engineers and when did they stopped their flight engineer training ?

I know at UAL new hire pilots were going to the panel in 1999 (727)they could bid out of this position to a pilot's seat when their seniority and any training freeze allowed.
Work hard fly right..don't understand it
 
113312
Posts: 610
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:09 am

RE: Some Questions About Flight Engineers

Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:51 am

When the jet age began, there were many "Flight Engineers" as a carry over from the piston days. FEs generally didn't have pilot certificates but did usually have mechanic certifications. As the years went by, most of the airline FEs either retired or became pilot qualified. Some FEs continued to enter the airlines from the military however most still had to become pilot qualified.

When most of the airlines were still using fleets of 3 pilot crews ie: B707, B727, DC-8, DC-10, B747 Classic and L1011, it was expected that new hires at the major airlines would start out as "Second Officer" operating from the FE position. Nearly all major airlines required applicants to have either the full FE Turbojet certificate or at least the FAA written exam passed.

Today, the non-pilot FE is nearly extinct for the major airlines although there might be a few in the non-sched. world or with some small foreign operators. With few planes in service still requiring a 3rd crewmember, most of the positions are filled with low seniority pilots or retired former Captains and First Officers who desire to still work for air carriers. Few, if any, airlines care if a pilot applicant has this qualification.
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Some Questions About Flight Engineers

Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:15 am

It is common in the industry to refer to a pilot who currently holds the 3rd position as a "second officer"

Non-pilot full-time, permanent flight engineers are often called "professional flight engineers" to distinguish them from second officers.

The term "flight engineer" is not specific enough to differentiate between these two categories and usually refers to the position and not necessarily the person who fills it.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2051
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Some Questions About Flight Engineers

Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:45 pm

Fedex still requires an FE ticket as part of the hiring qualifications. Usually the entry position is 727 FE but with the addition of more MD-11s some new guys are now going straight into the right seat of the -11.
 
charlienorth
Posts: 1057
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:24 am

RE: Some Questions About Flight Engineers

Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:08 pm

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 4):
The term "flight engineer" is not specific enough to differentiate between these two categories and usually refers to the position and not necessarily the person who fills it.

Now Flight Enginer is a certificate,the title Second Officer or Flight Engineer is mostly a designation by the employer.
Work hard fly right..don't understand it

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