777236ER
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Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:48 pm

Apologies if this has been posted before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_87KqdX7PE
Your bone's got a little machine
 
flyfisher1976
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:01 pm

The 777 footage is very cool. i wonder what the altitude was when he opened it?
 
SlamClick
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:01 am

He isn't kidding about the noise. I flew a DC-9 about sixty miles with the window open. I was at cruise at 250 knots at about 6000' on a short ferry flight, flying with a training captain who was getting me ready for upgrade. I could look straight ahead out the CV window and not feel any breeze at all. The Jepp plate clipped to my yoke hardly fluttered. But the noise was astonishing! About the same, in my memory as standing behind Niagara Falls.
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:45 am

Has that ever happened during cruise at the flight levels and typical cruising speeds?

I'd presume the pressure differential would make that pretty much impossible, but I could be wrong.
 
Mender
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:56 am

Why on earth does Boeing feel they need to put a "window Not Closed" decal on the window frame?

Is it actually possible for the window to be open enough to read this decal and the pilot not know the window is open?
 
PPVRA
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:14 am

I'm sure putting your head out the window would not be a good idea either. . . LOL!

Great video, thanks.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
jamesbuk
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting Mender (Reply 4):

Try listening to the vid, the guy says, "This sticker is so that when you are winding in the window, you look out of the side, if the sticker is still visible then the window is not sealed properly"

Great video!!

rgds --James--
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
 
BAE146QT
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:39 am

Quoting Mender (Reply 4):
Why on earth does Boeing feel they need to put a "window Not Closed" decal on the window frame?

You live in the UK and you have to ask? I presume you don't watch television and don't see the "No-win, no-fee adverts" - we sue as much as the Americans now.

Don't get me wrong Mender - I'm on your side. But if someone can screw up and blame it on someone worth suing, they will.

Quoting 777236ER (Thread starter):
Apologies if this has been posted before.

Thank you T7 - it was very interesting. I had no idea how this worked on different aircraft. Fascinating how it has evolved from brute force in the 737 to a geared winder in the 7N7 birds.

Kinda makes you want to ask, "Why didn't you lot think of this before?"
Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 7):
Fascinating how it has evolved from brute force in the 737 to a geared winder in the 7N7 birds.

True, but aren't those later windows also much larger?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
SlamClick
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 3):
pressure differential would make that pretty much impossible

Right, notice the narrator specified "unpressurized" flight. Let's say the sliding window is 24" by 30" and you are pressurized to 8.6 PSID. That would put 6192 pounds of pressure against the window. Try lifting that with a four inch lever and one hand. Even with only a quarter pound of differential it would be 180 pounds.

Am I mistaken or does the NG have a bit more clearance between the window handle and that protrusion above it. I'd swear I've jammed a finger in that space a time or two.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Mender
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 6):
Try listening to the vid, the guy says, "This sticker is so that when you are winding in the window, you look out of the side, if the sticker is still visible then the window is not sealed properly"

With the aircraft on the ground and the window unlatched gravity will open the window. I cannot see that the window will remain in the forward position but unlatched at flying speed.

If the window was open far enough to see this sticker then I would notice there was a whacking great hole in the side of the cockpit. I wouldn't need a sticker to tell me this, no matter how pre-occupied I was flying the thing. I can understand the latched/unlatched placard on the upper latch mechanism but not this open sticker.

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 7):
You live in the UK and you have to ask? I presume you don't watch television and don't see the "No-win, no-fee adverts" - we sue as much as the Americans now.

Next you are going to tell me there is a placard on the 767 seat base that say the seat must face forward and be locked for take off and landing (or words to that effect). If someone is going to try to fly an aeroplane with the seat facing the wrong way then I don't want to use the toilet after him/her.

Don't get me wrong. I am not having a go at pilots. I'm having a pop at Boeing and their lawyers. What an insult to everyone’s intelligence.
 
jamesbuk
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting Mender (Reply 10):

But if you only see a little bit of the sticker, then your going to have presurisation problems. He said it in the video its there so you can make sure its fully locked, the window latch at the top works on the same principle as a public toilet door occupied sign, if the bolts closed itll say closed. (or so im told)

Rgds --James--
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:40 am

Quoting Mender (Reply 10):
Next you are going to tell me there is a placard on the 767 seat base that say the seat must face forward and be locked for take off and landing (or words to that effect).

I don't know about the 767 but there is just that on the DC-10. The one good thing about lawyers is that they have helped the sticker industry immensely.  Smile
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
sanjet
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:29 pm

Quoting Mender (Reply 10):
Next you are going to tell me there is a placard on the 767 seat base that say the seat must face forward and be locked for take off and landing (or words to that effect

Actually a lot of aircraft do have a placard stating that seat must be locked during take off and landing.
Will Fly For Food!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:43 pm

Quoting Mender (Reply 10):
With the aircraft on the ground and the window unlatched gravity will open the window.

No, it won't.

The force of gravity is perpendicular to the track along which the cockpit windows can open. In the example of the 737-900, it was a parallel force (that of building aerodynamic resistance) that pushed the unlatched window open. Gravity had nothing to do with that (or any other) window opening.

Quoting Mender (Reply 10):
If the window was open far enough to see this sticker then I would notice there was a whacking great hole in the side of the cockpit.

Don't get me wrong. I am not having a go at pilots. I'm having a pop at Boeing and their lawyers. What an insult to everyone’s intelligence.

And you would think that, wouldn't you? But it's there nevertheless.

There are also no smoking signs around fuel depots. There are "slippery when wet" signs in bathrooms. There are high voltage signs on substations and long distance transmission lines. There's a frickin warning lable on coffee that the beverage is hot.

We don't need you to telling us the obvious anymore than we need Boeing telling us the window is open.  eyebrow 
 
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ThrottleHold
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:32 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 14):
No, it won't.

The force of gravity is perpendicular to the track along which the cockpit windows can open

Yes it can.
The window track is not quite horizontal, but sloped slightly downwards and aft.
I once had the cockpit wondow slide open on landing at about 60kts, all by itself.
 
Tod
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:32 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 12):
The one good thing about lawyers is that they have helped the sticker industry immensely.

The lawyers should not get all the credit. There are FAA Interior Compliance DER's out there that have definately done their share.

Tod
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 14):
There are also no smoking signs around fuel depots. There are "slippery when wet" signs in bathrooms. There are high voltage signs on substations and long distance transmission lines. There's a frickin warning lable on coffee that the beverage is hot.

We have scooters in the office (yes, small IT company). My colleague just bought a new one and it has a HUGE sticker about wearing a helmet, not riding in a half-pipe, not jumping...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
sudden
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 12):
The one good thing about lawyers is that they have helped the sticker industry immensely

Soon we will have stickers outside the frame, telling pilots "cockpit this way" followed by an arrow.  Wink

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
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Starlionblue
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:43 am

Quoting Sudden (Reply 18):
Aim for the sky!

Whoa whoa! You need a disclaimer on that statement. Something like "This statement is in no way an encouragement or a suggestion to aim at anything. Do not aim at people or objects. Use the safety."
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
sudden
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:23 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 19):
Whoa whoa! You need a disclaimer on that statement

I get a sticker for it.  Wink

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
When in doubt, flat out!
 
SlamClick
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:42 am

Quoting Sudden (Reply 18):
Soon we will have stickers outside the frame, telling pilots "cockpit this way" followed by an arrow.

Hell, last time I went skiing I saw some guy wearing a sweater that had "HEAD" and an up-arrow "۸" design embroidered on it. Honestly, who needs that kind of help getting a shirt on?

Quoting ThrottleHold (Reply 15):
The window track is not quite horizontal, but sloped slightly downwards and aft.
I once had the cockpit wondow slide open on landing at about 60kts, all by itself.

Picking as little nit as possible I'd suggest that if you were accelerating through 60 knots that acceleration, partially unweighting the window from the down-aft sloping track had at least as much to do with it sliding open as gravity had.

Kind of like releasing the brakes on a Twin Beech and having the transponder land at the last row of seats. (kind of embarassing when the passengers hand it back forward to you!)
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
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ThrottleHold
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 21):
Picking as little nit as possible I'd suggest that if you were accelerating through 60 knots that acceleration,

Nope, I was decelerating through about 60 on the landing roll.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting ThrottleHold (Reply 22):
Nope, I was decelerating through about 60 on the landing roll.

Thereby demonstrating the value of "educated" guesses.
 Sad
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ThrottleHold
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 23):
Thereby demonstrating the value of "educated" guesses

Entirely forgivable! A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!
 
Mender
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RE: Boeing Video On Open DV Window At Takeoff

Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:47 am

At the risk of adding more fuel to the fire I'd like to say I'm enjoying this thread. Quite a lively debate going on for a change.

By the way 10 points to ThrottleHold

Quoting ThrottleHold (Reply 15):
Yes it can.
The window track is not quite horizontal, but sloped slightly downwards and aft.

I know the 757, and the 767 tracks are not horizontal. Same goes for the 737 so I guess that applies to the 707 and the 727 by default. Unlatch the windows and they usually fully open by themselves.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 14):
There's a frickin warning lable on coffee that the beverage is hot.

This is exactly what your adverage Maccy D's customer needs. I know, I've seen enough of them wobbling about ;0)

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