Jawed
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747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?

Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:58 pm

As far as I can tell this 747 goes from zero to rotation in about 20 seconds.

http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircra...n_Airways_Aviation_Video-7334.html

Is this normal or does that strike anyone else as extremely fast acceleration?

[Edited 2007-01-01 09:58:50]
 
777fan
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RE: 747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?

Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:02 pm

Pretty close to that. Maybe a light load and fuel? What about headwinds? I couldn't see a sock but would guess there had to be something...

777fan

[Edited 2007-01-01 10:05:23]
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PhilSquares
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RE: 747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?

Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:03 pm

Given it was a very light gross weight takeoff, it's normal. My guess, if it was going to NRT it was probably not heavier than about 270 tonnes.
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Zkpilot
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RE: 747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?

Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:14 pm

Possibly a bit shorter than normal, but with a good headwind and light load its nothing unusual.
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toksans
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RE: 747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?

Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:27 pm

ANA uses international 744 for domestic service sometime. This 744 was taken at ITM and it went to HND as domestic flight. So gross weight should be small with lesser fuel.
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Blackbird1331
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RE: 747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?

Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:32 pm

Never mind the time. It looked like the 747 took off using only 3000' of runway. Maybe it was empty and on a ferry flight.
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cedarjet
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RE: 747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting Blackbird1331 (Reply 5):
Maybe it was empty and on a ferry flight.

May as well have been! On a 744 with a full load of fuel for a long eleven hour flight, the weight of the fuel is over a third of the MTOW. This jet, going to Haneda, is only carrying enough fuel for a one hour flight plus reserves (and they wouldn't be much either - enough to divert to Narita and hold for 30 mins). So no surprise that her performance for the camera was sprightly. Man, you should have seen Qantas 747SPs (with RB211s btw) take off from Sydney en route to Brisbane. She was always off before the intersection. To infinity and beyond!
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gkyip
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RE: 747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:11 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 3):
Possibly a bit shorter than normal, but with a good headwind and light load its nothing unusual.

I think if you listen to the ATC, tower reports winds calm, so i'm putting it to a very light load, possibly even empty! It was very quick though, i'm sure i've been on A320s and 737s that have had longer TO rolls!

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AirWillie6475
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RE: 747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:23 am

It's just a local flight, I'm surprised it didn't take 1500 to get airborne.
 
flyfisher1976
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RE: 747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:32 am

Quoting Jawed (Thread starter):
As far as I can tell this 747 goes from zero to rotation in about 20 seconds.

I counted 30 seconds on the clock in the lower rh corner from the beginning of the roll (see the runway sign "8" in lh part of frame for reference) to rotation (nose wheel leaves ground). Doesn't seem too unusual to me.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: 747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:27 am

Cool video.

Anyone happen to know if that was an intersection takeoff? Looked like the 747 was lining up right around the aiming markers (somewhere between 1000-2000 feet down the runway). Is that something that's done at this airport?

Thanks.

~Vik
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highflyer9790
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RE: 747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?

Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:45 am

What about the Vertical Speed on climb out for a 747 that light?
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highflyer9790
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RE: 747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?

Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:53 am

Also, flaps look as it they are at 10, as opposed to heavier takeoffs w/flaps 20

[Edited 2007-01-05 03:54:30]
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PhilSquares
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RE: 747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?

Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:22 pm

Quoting HighFlyer9790 (Reply 12):
Also, flaps look as it they are at 10, as opposed to heavier takeoffs w/flaps 20

Heavyweight takeoffs aren't necessarilary done with flaps 20. Flaps 20 will get more weight off the runway (especially short) but you take a big hit in climb performance.

Generally speaking for most runways Flaps 10 will be more than enough to get the aircraft off at MTOW and have not take a hit on climb weights.
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DH106
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RE: 747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?

Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:43 pm

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 13):
Heavyweight takeoffs aren't necessarilary done with flaps 20. Flaps 20 will get more weight off the runway (especially short) but you take a big hit in climb performance.

Generally speaking for most runways Flaps 10 will be more than enough to get the aircraft off at MTOW and have not take a hit on climb weights.

Can you not get the best of both worlds and do Flaps 20 until shortly after t/o then Flaps 10 for the climb? Presumably there's a strict retraction schedule for height/speed that precludes this?
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PhilSquares
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RE: 747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?

Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:40 pm

Quoting DH106 (Reply 14):
Can you not get the best of both worlds and do Flaps 20 until shortly after t/o then Flaps 10 for the climb? Presumably there's a strict retraction schedule for height/speed that precludes this?

Simply no. Each airline has it's own SOP and furthermore, some airports have very specific ops procedures for flap retraction. In an ideal world, at 400' you would accelerate to flaps 10 airspeed, retract the flaps and go from there. However, most airlines use a clean up of 800' to 1000' as an engine out clean up altitude unless terrain dictates another altitude. As such, their 20 flap procedures are based on that altitude. I know of other airlines that stay at 20 flap until 3000'AGL and starts the retraction then.

It really boils down to each airline's SOP. But if you don't need the 20 flaps why bother in the first place?

Certainly V1 is higher with 10 flaps, tire speeds are higher, but the bottom line is it within the aircraft certification limits and available as an procedure. It always struck me as odd you'd use 20 flaps and redcued takeoff EPR/N1.
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ImperialEagle
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RE: 747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?

Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:42 am

Back when KE's 744's were flying ATL-ORD-SEL, it was not unusual to observe them leaving ATL like a rocket!

I saw many of those flights roll a VERY short distance and leap off of the ground---climbing like the proverbial "Space Shuttle" and I'm thinking they did it in under 20 seconds---(although I never timed them)!
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"

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