dw747400
Posts: 1091
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 8:24 am

Another IFR Question

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:11 am

As many of you have figured out, I'm in the final stages of earning my Instrument rating. In preparation for the checkride, I had a couple related questions about V-airways and changeover points. According to the AIM, a COP can either be marked or (obviously) take place at a fix that defines a dog leg. My question is what degree of change in course would be considered a dog leg? I'm looking at V1 down the East Coast and there is a 5 degree change in course at the WALLO intersection. Would this make WALLO a COP despite the fact it is only about a third of the way along the airway? Also, the other radial that defines the fix (CRE 034) has a DME marking at the fix. I assume a DME fix indicates that the radial can be picked up at that distance as well, but wanted to verify this.

Sorry if these questions are a bit strange, but I know tech/ops is the best place to get a fast and accurate answer from people that know!

If a visual helps, the route in question is on L-27, panels B and C.

Thanks.
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KELPkid
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RE: Another IFR Question

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:19 am

I would think any COP where you have to change aircraft heading to stay on the airway is, by definition, a dogleg. Most COP's involve only changing the receiver from one station to the next, and setting the TO bearing in the OBS selector.

As I recall, doglegs are depicted on NOS charts with an "x" at the dogleg point.
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dw747400
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RE: Another IFR Question

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:23 am

Thanks for the prompt response... I don't believe there are X's for doglegs on NOS charts--I looked and couldn't find any. In the legend you have X's for various mileage breakdown and computer fix purposes, as well as the X-flag for MCAs. Didn't see anything else.
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KELPkid
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RE: Another IFR Question

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 2):
I don't believe there are X's for doglegs on NOS charts--I looked and couldn't find any. In the legend you have X's for various mileage breakdown and computer fix purposes, as well as the X-flag for MCAs. Didn't see anything else

I pulled out my L-1, and I'm looking at the one dogleg I know well, (ATASY) on V165. it is depicted with an "X". I flew this airway on my long IFR cross country  

EDIT: according to the L-1 legend, this X is "Mileage Breakdown or computer nav fix, no ATC functions." I'm noticing other airways with doglegs where the dogleg is marked by an intersection, seems to make sense.

[Edited 2007-01-01 21:33:26]

[Edited 2007-01-01 21:34:10]
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ilikeyyc
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:09 am

RE: Another IFR Question

Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:37 am

Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
My question is what degree of change in course would be considered a dog leg?

Think about it...You have to change to the new station and new radial to stay on the airway, so it must be a changeover point, regardless of how acute the angle is.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3):
EDIT: according to the L-1 legend, this X is "Mileage Breakdown or computer nav fix, no ATC functions." I'm noticing other airways with doglegs where the dogleg is marked by an intersection, seems to make sense.

Right. And non-standard COPs are marked with a rigid "S" sort of symbol.
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113312
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RE: Another IFR Question

Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:42 am

I recommend that you read, carefully, the introduction and legends for Jepp charts or NACO charts that you're using. Each element on every chart has significance. This forum really isn't the place to conduct ground school.
 
dw747400
Posts: 1091
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 8:24 am

RE: Another IFR Question

Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting 113312 (Reply 5):
I recommend that you read, carefully, the introduction and legends for Jepp charts or NACO charts that you're using. Each element on every chart has significance. This forum really isn't the place to conduct ground school.

As you suggested, I had already read the appropriate sections of the charts, as well as the AIM and various groundschool course publications but was unable to fine a definitive answer. Your right the forum isn't the place to conduct a groundschool, but I think it is a legitimate place to gain information pertinent to a few specific concerns--though, as with any source, its best to confirm information with other resources.

Quoting Ilikeyyc (Reply 4):
Think about it...You have to change to the new station and new radial to stay on the airway, so it must be a changeover point, regardless of how acute the angle is.

The issue comes to mind because some single-segment airways do not have corresponding radials listed, yet because there is no published information suggesting otherwise, the COP is at the centerpoint.

Thanks.
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