User avatar
HAWK21M
Topic Author
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

Cellphones On The Job

Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:10 pm

Do you carry a cellphone while on the Tarmac in Mx.What about refuelling.
Since the Frequency is Low of cellphones & RT sets [Walkies].Would it matter if used around the Aircraft.
If not how does HQ communicate with you.

Out here its been a hot discussion lately.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
futureuapilot
Posts: 1329
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 7:50 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:36 pm

The refuelling company I work for relies on cell phones to get the fuel orders before the receptionists arrives. We carrry them all over the place. Afer the Front Desk opens up we then switch over to our normal radios.

-Sam
The Pilot is the highest form of life on Earth!
 
User avatar
jetmech
Posts: 2316
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:14 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:48 pm

G'day HAWK21M  Smile,

We each issue ourselves with a personal radio at the beginning of each shift. There is no restriction on the use of this radio anywhere on (or off) the airport, tarmac or the aircraft. This is how we communicate with other members of the engineering, cargo and airport departments.

Most of the boys also take their mobile phones with them and they often make calls whilst on the tarmac and on the aircraft. The LAME's always take their mobile phones with them so that they can call other airport organisations not on our radio system if need be.

I am sure that you are not meant to use mobiles when refuelling, but I am sure I have seen it been done. As far as I know, there is no restriction with using the radios during or near refuelling operations, and we do so all the time. I personally never take my mobile phone with me on the tarmac as it is just another thing to lose and I don't think it is quite appropriate to be talking to friends whilst I am working on the aircraft, but many of the other boys do.

Regards, JetMech
JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair :shock: .
 
grandtheftaero
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:05 pm

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:11 pm

When I worked at VNY they frowned upon using cell phones around the fuel farm because they are not "intrinsically safe"... hence the cell phone prohibition you see at most gas stations.
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:44 pm

Quoting GrandTheftAero (Reply 3):
hence the cell phone prohibition you see at most gas stations

There is nothing dangerous about using a cell phone at a gas station. This urban legion started when someone caught fire while using his cell at a gas pump due to static electricity, not the cell phone. If cell phones possed a danger at gas pumps so would pagers, electric wrist watches, mp3 players, ect....
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
tlfd29
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:41 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:15 am

I carry my cell phone on me at all times on the ramp. Our radios don't work too great, so when I'm in a deadspot I can just call the CSR and get what I need. I try not to make it a habit but I do occasionally take calls when I'm fueling. We don't have any regulations on cell phone usage.
 
cancidas
Posts: 3985
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:34 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:44 am

when i was on the ramp as a supervisor we would carry a radio and my cell. the radio would allow me to communicate with other supervisors, managers and operations. my nextel was there to be able to keep tabs on and be available to my agents. now that i'm in ops i have the phone, air-to ground and ground-to-ground radio in my console but my phone is still on me most of the time.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
star_world
Posts: 943
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 7:52 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:15 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 4):
There is nothing dangerous about using a cell phone at a gas station. This urban legion started when someone caught fire while using his cell at a gas pump due to static electricity, not the cell phone. If cell phones possed a danger at gas pumps so would pagers, electric wrist watches, mp3 players, ect....

You are actually incorrect. The original reason behind prohibiting mobile phones at gas stations was due to an older design of gas pumps where the flow counter was affected by the interference from the phone, causing the amount to be measured incorrectly. This isn't the case with any of the newer pumps. It was more revenue protection by the gas station owners than anything else  Smile

However there is always a small risk of using any transmitter / receiver near gas fumes - that's what makes a mobile phone different than a wrist watch!
 
NKP S2
Posts: 1665
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 3:16 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:34 am

I don't carry my phone while working, though many of my peers do. While I can see a convenience, it would be more trouble than it's worth. I can't carry it on my belt or shirt as it would snag on things ( and be lost or broken ) or get soiled by a myriad of nasty stuff. I also don't want my pocket full of a bulging phone, I find it uncomfortable...I don't even carry my wallet with me while out on a plane. I need to be lithe and somewhat maneuverable.

Of course now there's also the double-edged sword side of "convenience". I can now be bothered/distracted more "conveniently" as well. No, the phone sits in my kit bag off a hook on the front of my locker...or in the glovebox of my car. Never been a cell-phone sort of person, it's more of a safety/security panic-button. Like it was coined so accurately by some astute wag: I have a phone for my convenience...not somebody elses.
 
kaddyuk
Posts: 3697
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:03 pm

Quoting Star_world (Reply 7):
You are actually incorrect. The original reason behind prohibiting mobile phones at gas stations was due to an older design of gas pumps where the flow counter was affected by the interference from the phone, causing the amount to be measured incorrectly. This isn't the case with any of the newer pumps. It was more revenue protection by the gas station owners than anything else

Also incorrect, they use a swirl fuel flow meter... look up how it works on wiki...

Read this page for more information
http://www.hintsandthings.co.uk/garage/phonehoax.htm

I used to work in a gas station...

As for phones at work, i keep mine on me and will accept calls if i'm available. Otherwise we use standard two way radio...

[Edited 2007-01-04 04:05:16]
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Topic Author
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:43 pm

Quoting JetMech (Reply 2):
is no restriction on the use of this radio anywhere on (or off) the airport, tarmac or the aircraft



Quoting JetMech (Reply 2):
As far as I know, there is no restriction with using the radios during or near refuelling operations, and we do so all the time

In the AMM Servicing Chapter there is a Restriction of 10 ft [3 mtrs] from a Refuelling source with Cellphone/Hand held radios.Check Chapter 12.I've read it on the B737AMM & B757AMM.

Quoting JetMech (Reply 2):
I personally never take my mobile phone with me on the tarmac as it is just another thing to lose and I don't think it is quite appropriate to be talking to friends whilst I am working on the aircraft, but many of the other boys do.

What about official calls from another city.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
zvocio79
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:33 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:15 pm

With out my cell phone I cant talk to my maintenance controler........some guys do jobs and they need references of the AMM so they call to ask for reference and chapters and sub chapters.
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Topic Author
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:38 pm

Quoting Zvocio79 (Reply 11):
With out my cell phone I cant talk to my maintenance controler........some guys do jobs and they need references of the AMM so they call to ask for reference and chapters and sub chapters.

Same here.The Laptop helps with AMM & MBF.com however at times communication thru cellphone is the only way on the Tarmac when dealing with Line Mx snags,in case of Spare parts requirements & snag progress updation.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
nonfirm
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:04 pm

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:13 pm

We use both radios and cell phones.If we need to contact maintenance control it's with the cell phone or if we need to talk to each other or the flight crew on the airplane it is with the radios.  airplane 
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Topic Author
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:59 pm

As long as the Distance of 10 feet is maintained.Things should be fine.If for some reason you are entering the 10ft zone,switch off the cellphone.So no incomming calls arrive.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Mender
Posts: 248
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:36 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:02 am

MEL

Read the 757 AMM 28-11-00 page 209 table 201.

Mobile phones are cat 3 items. The separation distance for open tanks (not purged or during purging) is 50 feet. If they are open and purged it is 10 feet.

I know this is aimed at heavy maintenance but to my mind, for ramp operations you should be ok anywhere except below or downwind of the fuel vents during refuelling.
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Topic Author
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:33 pm

Quoting Mender (Reply 15):
Read the 757 AMM 28-11-00 page 209 table 201.

Mobile phones are cat 3 items. The separation distance for open tanks (not purged or during purging) is 50 feet. If they are open and purged it is 10 feet.

Im not reffering to open tanks,but rather during Servicing.More Importantly Line Mx.
check B757 AMM 12-11-01 pg 312.Should be 10 feet.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Mender
Posts: 248
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:36 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Im not reffering to open tanks,but rather during Servicing.More Importantly Line Mx

Yeh, I realise that MEL but I quoted it because I think it helps highlight that mobile phones are of little or no risk for Line Maintenance. A little while ago our management tried to ban mobile phones from the hangar floor quoting the risk of fire or explosion but we have managed to "prove" that they had no reason to do this unless the tanks were being purged at the time. Another quote also helped, again, this is not line maintenance related, it refers to tank entry and being able to breathe inside a tank without forced air but it helped prove the management wrong on banning phones.

Chapter 28-11-00 page 205 states......"Because kerosene has a low vapor pressure, the concentrations are usually within the limits needed for a Health-Safe condition. Thus, you usually get very low (safe) values at usual temperatures (less than approximately 70 degrees F). At tank temperatures of approximately 90 dgrees F, it is possible to get gas concentrations more than the Health-Safe value with kerosene.
At tank temperatures of more than 90 degrees F, it is possible to get gas concentrations more than the Fire-Safe value."

Here in the UK we do not often experience 90 degrees. I bet you rarely see below that figure though.

In our company we do not have any restrictions on the use of Mobile phones or radios, however on the line we cannot start the APU during refuelling due to the risk posed but the ignition system of the APU. If the APU is already running it is fine, if it is off, it has to stay off until refuelling is complete.

Do you have this?
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:48 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:17 am

We were issued Cells for the ramp and Departures..


GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1566
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Thread starter):
Since the Frequency is Low of cellphones & RT sets

If you are speaking of the radio frequency, your hand helds may be considered "low". (VHF 150-175 MHz UHF 450-500 MHz) The mobile phones are not. Some still operate as low as 800-900 MHz. Most newer sets are all 2.5 Ghz and above. In the radio spectrum that is not considered low, but rather EHF. (Extremely high Frequency)
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
futureuapilot
Posts: 1329
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 7:50 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:06 am

Quoting Mender (Reply 17):
however on the line we cannot start the APU during refuelling due to the risk posed but the ignition system of the APU. If the APU is already running it is fine, if it is off, it has to stay off until refuelling is complete.

That's definently not the case here.

-Sam
The Pilot is the highest form of life on Earth!
 
G4LASRamper
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:35 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:40 pm

No restrictions here that I can tell on cell use. None were mentioned during training. Just about everyone on the station crew here carries and uses a cell, and all CSAs, GOAs, MX, and Supes carry a company radio.
"A pig that doesn't fly is just a pig." - Porco Rosso
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Topic Author
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:53 pm

Quoting Mender (Reply 17):
In our company we do not have any restrictions on the use of Mobile phones or radios, however on the line we cannot start the APU during refuelling due to the risk posed but the ignition system of the APU. If the APU is already running it is fine, if it is off, it has to stay off until refuelling is complete.

Do you have this

That is def a rule in place out here.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
User avatar
jetmech
Posts: 2316
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:14 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:42 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
In the AMM Servicing Chapter there is a Restriction of 10 ft [3 mtrs] from a Refuelling source with Cellphone/Hand held radios.

I have no doubt that there actually is some sort of limit. On the A340 / A330, the refuelling panel is located in the wing to body fairing near the right MLG, whilst the refuel manifold couplings are in the leading edge of the wing at about half span, so you are easily more than 3 metres away.

On the 747 / 767, the refuelling panel is at the same location as some of the refuel manifold couplings so you are easily within 3 metres of the refuel point. Despite the advice in the MM, I do have a radio on me when refuelling 747's and often ask for final fuel clearance on it whilst at the refuel panel.

Regards, JetMech
JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair :shock: .
 
CRJonBeez
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:08 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:57 pm

Quoting JetMech (Reply 23):
On the 747 / 767, the refuelling panel is at the same location as some of the refuel manifold couplings so you are easily within 3 metres of the refuel point. Despite the advice in the MM, I do have a radio on me when refuelling 747's and often ask for final fuel clearance on it whilst at the refuel panel.

+1
same here. i have been tagged by one UPS auditor for fueling a 752 while carrying a radio. when told what the problem was while she was standing next to me on top of the truck, i kindly pointed out to her that her cell, which was on her belt, was left on. she let me slide. Big grin

most of the companies have eased up on regulations regarding radio use near aircraft. same with bonding to the plane while fueling. i remember the days of bonding the aircraft to the truck, to the fuel nozzle, then grounding. these days, it's just a matter of bonding to the truck for the most part. a few companies still want a bond to the truck and to the nozzle, but only a few.
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Topic Author
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:41 pm

Quoting JetMech (Reply 23):
Despite the advice in the MM, I do have a radio on me when refuelling 747's and often ask for final fuel clearance on it whilst at the refuel panel.

Exactly the same thing occured with a collegue a few nights ago.

Quoting CRJonBeez (Reply 24):
same here. i have been tagged by one UPS auditor for fueling a 752 while carrying a radio. when told what the problem was while she was standing next to me on top of the truck, i kindly pointed out to her that her cell, which was on her belt, was left on. she let me slide

Quick Thinking  Smile

Quoting CRJonBeez (Reply 24):
i remember the days of bonding the aircraft to the truck, to the fuel nozzle, then grounding. these days, it's just a matter of bonding to the truck for the most part. a few companies still want a bond to the truck and to the nozzle, but only a few

Out here.Its bonding between the Fuel nozzle to Grounding point on panel,Fuel Truck bonded to Ground & Aircraft.

In case the Fuel truck bonnding cable to grounding point on the Aircraft is placed wrongly while fuelling is in progress & You notice it.What would you do.

I would think.Immedietly stop Refuelling & reconnect the Bonding cable.Or just Reconnect the Bonding cable to the Aircraft.

Any suggestions.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6430
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:41 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 4):
There is nothing dangerous about using a cell phone at a gas station.

Especially defective cell phones could generate a spark from the switches or a lose battery connection. For that reason ordinary cell phones are totally banned at oil refineries and such.

For that reason we can buy totally safe cell phones. They are heavier and bulkier, and they carry a completely different price tag.

It is considered very bad habit to fumble with a cell phone at a gas station. Should a major leak develope, then people talking on a cell phone could be scared and drop the phone on the ground. That could damage the phone and separate the battery. And create the spark which transforms a minor incident into a major disaster.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Topic Author
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:31 pm

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 26):
totally safe cell phones

Any details on these types.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
kbfispotter
Posts: 658
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 5:56 pm

RE: Cellphones On The Job

Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:56 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 25):
Out here.Its bonding between the Fuel nozzle to Grounding point on panel,Fuel Truck bonded to Ground & Aircraft.

At FBO I used to work at, we would just bond the truck to the plane if pumping AVGAS, but our JET-A trucks had a bonding cable bolted to the fuel nozzle, and the we would bond the nozzle to the plane, as well as bonding the plane to the truck.

Kris
Proud to be an A&P!!!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: SAAFNAV and 8 guests