wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:46 am

My climb performance is constantly decreasing in the recent years since I left the 737,I was complaining about the fully loaded A321 performance but in the near future 1000fpm climb will be a nice memory for me.  Smile

Any way I will start my training next week and simulators will be 4 sessions beginning of the february.By the 5 th of the february I will be transitioned to A340.That's Airbus family is all about.

On a side note I was 75 kgs when I started 737400,I gained 3 kgs as I was a 737800 pilot.When I was on the A 320 family I gradually gained weight to 82 kgs.After my wife got pregnant I kind of gained weight with her(I was thinking that was physicological) but I should have thought A "wide body" was coming .Now I am 85 kgs and I am begging THY,not to buy A380,I can't imagine what I will be next if I go to A380  Smile
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:49 am



Congrats, Wing! Do keep us posted....it will be fun to hear your perspective of the transition.


2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
brons2
Posts: 2462
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:02 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:49 am

Congratulations on your promotion!
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:04 am

A real airline guy!

Wide-body


Quoting Wing (Thread starter):
Now I am 85 kgs

Non-stop


Quoting Wing (Thread starter):
my wife got pregnant

But also first class!


Congratulations. Aside from the rate of climb that requires patience, it is a good airplane. I flew the 330 which was a great airplane but this is the next best thing.

Your A-320 knowledge will be both a help and a hindrance. The flight control computers act in very similar fashion but by very different means. Wish I could fly it with you.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
David L
Posts: 8552
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:17 am

Why? Does the 340 have better foot heating?

Have fun.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 1):
it will be fun to hear your perspective of the transition.

Definitely.
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:20 am

Quoting David L (Reply 4):
Does the 340 have better foot heating?

Sure it does! With only twelve hours fuel endurance it doesn't have time to climb up to where the air is actually cold.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
David L
Posts: 8552
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:30 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 5):
Sure it does! With only twelve hours fuel endurance it doesn't have time to climb up to where the air is actually cold.

Ah, of course! Better keep an eye on that altitude calendar.
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 11860
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting Wing (Thread starter):
75 kgs when I started 737400



Quoting Wing (Thread starter):
gained 3 kgs as I was a 737800 pilot



Quoting Wing (Thread starter):
A 320 family I gradually gained weight to 82 kgs



Quoting Wing (Thread starter):
Now I am 85 kgs

...And thus we discover the real reason why the A340 is a slow climber. The damn pilots have put on over 20 lbs. before they even get to it!

 Wink

Congrats Wing. Looking forward to your anecdotes about the 340.

~Vik
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9938
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:22 am

Hey Wing,

Enjoy !

From the minibus, the fuel system is a little different (4 engines and a trim tank), so is electrics (4 generators and no break power transfer so you dont gent the minibus clunk when a generator comes online), some one moved the park brake (alternate and park on blue HYD), an extra MCDU the rest should look familiar. Does not have the same tendency to go into direct law if someone sneezes, ECAM is also better.

No more EXP climb of descent either ... now you have an alt button.. ENG parameters on the ND as well...only one landing light switch  Sad

No more ELACs and SECs, now PRIMs and SECs, no more FMGC, now you have a FMEGC...

Engine out in cruise...hey so easy !!!

You will now be able to do derated takeoffs and climbs as well ! and dump fuel capability !!

There you go, conversion course finished !

P.S. remember to flare at the 40' call and to over steer through the corners !!!
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 8):

You forgot the descend-only TCAS because there is no point in commanding it to climb.

Kidding!!! Smile

Hey Wing, what kind of routes will you be flying over? Where will your layovers be?
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:13 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 3):
Wish I could fly it with you

Slamclick,Thank you for the compliments.I would like to assure you that even if we may not physically share the A340 with you, very valuable knowledge I learned from you is always flying with me where ever I go.So any time if you decide to fly one of our routes there will be a seat available in the cockpit for you  Smile (The same offer goes for Zeke and Pihero too)Hey Pihero maybe you don't remember but your beer are still in the refrigirator waiting for your Istanbul layover...I will be needing "jet lag" advices from Philsquares also.

By the way we start with A340 and in the next 6 months recurrent simulator we also transition to A330-which I jumpseated once to amaze by its performance-looking forward to lay my hands on it.

Our rotes currently served as far as know from Istanbul;Newyork,Chicago,Tokio,Shangai,Hong Kong,Bangkong,Seoul,Singapore,Jeddah are all layover destinations.Capetown, Johannesburg and Canada(don't know which) are the next ER destinations.South America will be in the target list of THY very soon but as I am not very familiar with the schedules I amnot surewhich destinations and when they will be available.
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
highflyer9790
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:21 am

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:49 am

Congrats!! we'd love some trip reports!!
121
 
Pihero
Posts: 4206
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:06 am

Hi, Wings !
Sorry, I've been quite busy with Long range 319s for some time and I was planning to bid for an IST layover for March.
First of all, CONGRATS ! you'll love the 340 and you'll positively ADORE the 330.
Apart from what Zeke told you, I'd advise you to take a long look at the Airbus brochures, in particular the "Getting to grips with..." series. I'd recommend the "...cost index" and the "...aircraft performance ".
PM me if you can't find them.
Now two questions :
1/-Aren't you coming close to your command course, now ?
and
2/- Do you intend to lose those extra kilos, and how ?

All the best.
Contrail designer
 
User avatar
TK787
Posts: 3102
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:49 am

Wing,
Congratulations on your upgrade. When you mentioned simulators last week, I thought you meant 320s, not the big ones. It will be a pleasure to fly with you, since I do the JFK-IST at least twice a year.
 
jumboforever
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:12 am

Congrats !

It's always nice to read experienec from real pilots here!

PM when you have a layover in Tokyo.

Regards,

JumboForever
 
Valcory
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:56 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:12 am

Quoting Wing (Thread starter):
By the 5 th of the february I will be transitioned to A340.That's Airbus family is all about.

Cogratulations on your upgrade i hope you enjoy flying the A-340
 
FredT
Posts: 2166
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2002 9:51 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:54 pm

Congrats, Wing! Conversion training is IMO one of the most interesting aspects of this industry, as it really highlights the good and the bad in what we engineers have created. If you find time, do post every once in a while on how you find it all.

Cheers,
/Fred
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
 
BoeingOnFinal
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:47 am

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:41 pm

Congratulations Wing. I have seen your latest trip report, and it is really something else to see pictures and read about how you are enjoying this profession.
Don't be surprised if you get some stupid question from an aspiring PPL student in your PM box  Smile

As I have gotten well into my PPL studies, I find that the more I learn, the more exciting it gets! You would think that the first flight and the first book is the most fun experience, and then it's all downhill from there. Well I've experienced it quite opposite, at least from the brief period as a pilot student.

So, do you feel like that as well working in the profession, or does that change the minute you get a full-time job?
norwegianpilot.blogspot.com
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6040
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:37 pm

Congratulations Wing.

The main problem will not be getting used to the new computers or anything like that on the A340, but the hardest thing will be getting used to just sitting there in the dark for hours and hours, staring into the dark night when your wife and baby are asleep and you are doing your best to stay awake. It is a feeling that unforunately I know well from my 744 days and unfortunately will get to know again when our 777-300ERs arrive. Drop me a line when you visit Hong Kong sometime!!
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8558
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:37 am

Many congrats Wing...been reading your posts for ages now and it has been fantastic living your career in a country with a growing aviation industry vicariously.

just sitting there in the dark for hours and hours staring into the dark night when your wife and baby are asleep

this consideration is what ultimately forced me out of the running for an airline career.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:30 am

Thanks guys for the best wishes,started to study already,I am not going with the "differences" but actually going allover again from the very beginning.Its taking time and sometimes a little bit hard especially if you have a 3 month old monster  Smile at home.



Quoting Pihero (Reply 12):
1/-Aren't you coming close to your command course, now ?

I am kind of unlucky on that.I started my airline career and spend 4 years at Pegasus,almost climbed to the upper ranks at the FO seniority list I had to leave the company consequences of the US-Iraq war.I spent(wasted) very valuable time at Turkish Cyprus Airline(worlds most stupid airline).Finally as I joined THY,the end of the FO seniority list,I am guessing around 3-4 more years in the A340 fleet before I can promote to left side, back in the A320 family.



Quoting Pihero (Reply 12):
2/- Do you intend to lose those extra kilos, and how ?

I was kind of hoping help of 12 FA's during the long layovers  Smile  Smile  Smile

Quoting TK787 (Reply 13):
When you mentioned simulators last week, I thought you meant 320s, not the big ones. It will be a pleasure to fly with you, since I do the JFK-IST at least twice a year.

Actually I meant that you are right,I wasnt informed of this when I wrote that,next day I saw my name on the A340 list,I will be plesed to host you on TK1,TK2,Hope we can do that.

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 18):
but the hardest thing will be getting used to just sitting there in the dark for hours and hours, staring into the dark night when your wife and baby are asleep and you are doing your best to stay awake

I think I will find hardest to be away this much(I had layovers but one or two nights tops on A320) from my family and especially from my baby.  Smile
On the other hand that baby is my simulator of staying awake during the long nights nowadays.

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 18):
Drop me a line when you visit Hong Kong sometime!!

Will be very happy to  Smile
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:22 pm

Congrats Wing.Im sure you'll enjoy the A340.

Anytime you arrive BOM give me a call.

Looking fwd to your TRs.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:28 pm

Hi guys,

Unfortunately disappointing news today.

Due to some family and company reasons I had to request a transfer back to A 320 fleet yesterday.As I havent been to simulator session yet it is accepted.

I have my military service coming in this year,I will be out of THY for 6 months so the A340 fleet doesn't want to loose a person in a short while after finishing the trainings and everything.They request me to postphone my military service for the next year but on the other side I have a new born child and I want to arrange my service according to my families' needs.

I talked this with the chief pilot and requested to stay in the A320 fleet until I am back from the army.

As a result you(and me) have to wait a little bit more to learn what its like to fly the A340.

Oh well Im glad I didnt throw my thick socks and blankets,as I am back in A320  Smile besides I haven't finished writing the series

"Things That Make Me Go Hýmm....on A320 No:1"
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
Pihero
Posts: 4206
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:58 am

Hi, Wings,
When I first read your initial post, I said to myself "Bad timing, Wing !" and I honestly think that your course postponement is a blessing in disguise .
Why ?
As you well know, the amount of study and the rhythm of a conversion course would put you right inside the "No Disturb" population, at the exact moment wifie and Junior would need you the most..
Then, starting long haul when Junior is growing up (so fast you wouldn't believe it) would make you miss the most important steps of his childhood . Remember when you come back after 8 days or more around the globe, you'll find your wife and child having developed a nice rapport and you'll be -at least the first two days off - the intruder...needing to be kept au fait of his progress...and of course, you'll be leaving for another trip before you've completed your "update" !...and so on and so on...
So, keep enjoying the baby Bus and yours at the same time... and keep writing here, as I enjoy your posts !

Best regards.
Contrail designer
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17117
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:54 am

You'll be back. Remember that:

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity."
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:07 pm

Well if it works out better for you then its better that way.
From Mx point of view.Training courses takes time & effort,With a small kid in the Family it would be tough concentrating & not running around with medically related doctor visits.

Looking fwd to the Future.
BTW whats this about Military service.Is it Mandatory for 2 yrs.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:20 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 25):
BTW whats this about Military service.Is it Mandatory for 2 yrs.

I've met a friend from India once when I was a student at Embry Riddle,I was shocked to learn that the military service is not mandatory but learning the number of population its pretty normal to get enough recruits even without making it mandatory.
In Turkey however we have the largest Army compared the size of the population.Unfortunate location of this beautiful country a strong army is a must.Therefore every Turkish man has to serve depending on his qualifications.

The high school graduates serve 16 months,and university graduates choose between 1 year as a liuetenant and 6 months as a sergeant.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 23):
When I first read your initial post, I said to myself "Bad timing, Wing !" and I honestly think that your course postponement is a blessing in disguise

I totally agree.My wife was very concerned about this but at first I was telling her to look at the brighter side but on a second thought the brighter side didnt shine enough to fullfill the fun of seeing the first steps and words of my baby boy.The long haul fleet is there as always been ,but these important times will be gone forever if I miss it.

It was not a easy chooice for me to make but with the support of all of you, I am now sure that I made the correct decision.



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 24):
You'll be back

I will go and tell this to the fleet chief of the A340 tomorrow,with the sound of Arnold Swarzeneger  Smile
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
David L
Posts: 8552
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:41 pm

Will your military service have any aviation link or will you just be running around in the hills, making a lot of noise and getting dirty?
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:17 am

Quoting David L (Reply 27):
Will your military service have any aviation link or will you just be running around in the hills, making a lot of noise and getting dirty?

Thats pure luck.Our military doesn't care if you are a pilot or not and gives your qualifications to a computer and you may as well end up one of the remote border villages running after terrorists.My only chance on that "might be" my age, 34 is a little old for that kind of action but as I said it depends on luck.

Mandatory military service brings lots of funny things in the military service.As every single men is one day or another serves in the military,lots of guys with jobs recruitted too.You may be one of other 50 electrical engineers in the platoon and if there is no more engineering jobs for you they make you responsible for turning the TV ON/OFF. Whatever branch I will be in I am sure I will have a lot of funny things to write(maybe in the military forum)Who knows since I am related with the "Air" they can make me responsible for the "airconditions"  Smile
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
Valcory
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:56 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:51 am

Hey wing you will flying the A-340 soon i wouldn't worry too much about that. In life nothing ever really goes smooth.
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17117
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting Wing (Reply 26):
I've met a friend from India once when I was a student at Embry Riddle,I was shocked to learn that the military service is not mandatory but learning the number of population its pretty normal to get enough recruits even without making it mandatory.
In Turkey however we have the largest Army compared the size of the population.Unfortunate location of this beautiful country a strong army is a must.Therefore every Turkish man has to serve depending on his qualifications.

I was in the last hurrah of Swedish national service. Military service is still mandatory in Sweden, but, as in India, the manpower demands are so small that most are not called. Unfortunately I was at the end of the mass army days, when money was short. My training was pointless and pretty demotivating. I was happy to serve, but I was unhappy that they were wasting my time and the state's money with useless training. I wanted to be a paratrooper, but apparently my feet are too flat.

My feeling is that a smaller but strong professional military is both cheaper in peacetime and is better at defending the nation than a conscript army of short time serving soldiers with a professional cadre. Historically professional soldiers with long service and experience are worth 5-10 times that many conscripts unless you're talking very simple tasks like manning of fixed defenses. Another time for the conscript army is total war, like WWII, when it's all hands on deck.

The issue politically with Turkey is that there is still a lot of internal paramilitary policing (the Kurdistan issue and so forth), so in some ways a conscript army makes sense. Same with Italy, the Carabinieri (military police including conscripts) essentially doing the job of the national police in many areas.

But I digress.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 30):
My training was pointless and pretty demotivating. I was happy to serve, but I was unhappy that they were wasting my time and the state's money with useless training. I wanted to be a paratrooper, but apparently my feet are too flat.

Thats most probably the exact thing will happen to me.

Quoting Wing (Reply 28):
You may be one of other 50 electrical engineers in the platoon and if there is no more engineering jobs for you they make you responsible for turning the TV ON/OFF. Whatever branch I will be in I am sure I will have a lot of funny things to write(maybe in the military forum)Who knows since I am related with the "Air" they can make me responsible for the "airconditions"

As it goes to national defence I strongly agree that a smaller but professional army should be more effective and easier to maintain.The recruites take a long time to become sharp shooting,fierce fighting soldiers but as they reach to that level they finish their service.
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
David L
Posts: 8552
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:42 am

Quoting Wing (Reply 28):

Just like flying then - fingers crossed! If they make you responsible for turning the TV on/off, then you should really stay and "monitor" that system.  Smile
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting David L (Reply 32):
then you should really stay and "monitor" that system.

Staring at a screen for long hours is something I can do best and If they promote you to upper ranks with your success in the military I can be a general for that.  Smile
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:35 pm

Thats true.Out here since the Voluntary force is so large,that Mandatory Service in the Forces is not a requirement.
Although It would be benificial for every Citizen to get Trained on Warfare skills.

However If the need arises,A call to Flying & Maintenance personnell to assist can Arise.

Also NDA training would help.Junior Officers can rise quite fast with Exposure  Smile


regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
FBU 4EVER!
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:53 am

RE: Wing Goes Big,Upgrading From A-320 To A-340

Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:23 pm

You'll like the A340 when you finally get checked out,Wing! I flew the MD-80 for almost 8 years before making the transition to the A340 a year ago.Boy was that a change!Great flightdeck (just as quiet as on the MD) and you can dine in style.Well,you probably did that on the A321.
I'm getting cross-qualified on the A330-300 these days: ! 3-hour pass in the simulator,then 1 pass in the sim. doing landings in all types of conditions and 1 pass in the sim doing low viz. training.Then checkride. One major difference,even greater than the number of engines: The A330 rotates and CLIMBS,the A340 waits for the earth to curve away before getting airborne!
"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: StereoTechque and 9 guests