highflyer9790
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:21 am

Eurpean Airline/Pilot Hiring

Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:17 am

Is it different than here in the US? as in, here, it seems if you want to go the civil route, you get all you ratings, maybe an aviation related college, a regional airline, than major. (obviously thats a REAL BIG milkdown of the whole process, im just trying to simplify it) How would you go about in europe?

Once your hired, it is basically the same as the US in terms of bidding, pay, etc?

Also, would it be possible for a US pilot to convert from a US airline to a European relatively easily? (Assuming citizenship is not a problem)

last thing: how is the hiring market over there for pilots?

anybody able to provide some actual experience/info on majors like AF,BA,VS,etc?



thanks for all your help!!

highflyer

[Edited 2007-01-18 02:18:56]
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saab2000
Posts: 1216
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:19 pm

RE: Eurpean Airline/Pilot Hiring

Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:09 am

I used to fly for LX.

The career path in Europe is completely different than in the US. Most of the European major airlines like BA, AF, LH, etc. hire pilots with zero time and train them in their in-house flight school. But most of these pilots already have a higher education, like a degree in engineering or something like that.

The selection process is thorough and difficult. Converting a US license to a European license is very tough. If you want to work for LH, you better be German, speak German or have some unbelievable connections. Same for AF. Same for LX. Same for BA.

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but getting in over there is not like it is in the US, where you can work your way up. The door to a career is either opened or closed very early on in Europe.

Companies like EasyJet and Ryanair are a bit different, but generally require that you bring your own toys to the party in the form of your own type-rating.
smrtrthnu
 
highflyer9790
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:21 am

RE: Eurpean Airline/Pilot Hiring

Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:21 pm

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 1):
Most of the European major airlines like BA, AF, LH, etc. hire pilots with zero time and train them in their in-house flight school.

So a more experienced pilot would have a lesser shot than one of these students at a job?

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 1):
Converting a US license to a European license is very tough.

in what sense? starting from scratch?

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 1):
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but getting in over there is not like it is in the US, where you can work your way up. The door to a career is either opened or closed very early on in Europe.

I flew on an AF A340 recently with what i thought was a very young first officer. the pilot, maybe middle aged, was already capt on all widebodies for AF. So the whole work your way up system is not there? hows it done?


thanks again!

highflyer
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saab2000
Posts: 1216
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:19 pm

RE: Eurpean Airline/Pilot Hiring

Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:44 pm

correct, a more experienced pilot will likely not get in. They like to hire their own pilots and train them from zero. It is not a bad way, but very selective.

The JAA licenses are tougher than US licenses in part because you can't buy a book with all the answers. In theory, the material is all the same. But in reality, the tests are much tougher. When I did my JAA CPL/IR it was 13 written tests. No joke. You need to know the stuff. It is not impossible at all, but not a farce like the FAA computer exams are. The flying part was comparable though and it is even possible that my FAA multi-engine IR and Commercial IR flight check rides were tougher than my JAA rides.

Finally, yes, the F/O was probably young. But he was probably hired at Air France at the age of 23 and hired directly into the Airbus A320, transferring to the A330/A340 a couple years later. This is normal. They don't start out on as a CFI and then go to the CRJ and then to an Airbus at age 32. They are hired right into the Airbus. But selection and training are very hard.

Not impossible, but different than the US.

BTW, neither the US nor Europe is better. They just do it differently. I have a lot of respect for the European way of doing it because that is how I got into the business. But I have also flown with many, many, many excellent pilots in the US. And in Europe.
smrtrthnu
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: Eurpean Airline/Pilot Hiring

Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:14 pm

Quoting HighFlyer9790 (Thread starter):
s it different than here in the US? as in, here, it seems if you want to go the civil route, you get all you ratings, maybe an aviation related college, a regional airline, than major. (obviously thats a REAL BIG milkdown of the whole process, im just trying to simplify it) How would you go about in europe?

Also it's harder to get into flying in Europe. Here in the U.S flight schools are kind of like McDonalds, one around every corner. It's all about money, it's much cheaper here, fuel, aircraft rentals, instructors. It's more accessible. When I started flight training, I literally had 10 options for flight schools. In Europe, you might have to move cities to find a school. Same goes for other parts of the world like Asia, which is much worse as far as school accessibility.
 
skyman
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 5:10 am

RE: Eurpean Airline/Pilot Hiring

Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 4):
Here in the U.S flight schools are kind of like McDonalds, one around every corner.

Dont´worry there are enough flight schools here to. I also think that he would pick a proper one before coming here, so no need to move. But you are right, it is more expensive here. The € - $ course is also at 1,29 at the moment which doesn´t make it any better.
The biggest problem would still be that the airlines will not hire you if you don´t speak their native language fluently. Saab2000 already listed the rest very well.
 
highflyer9790
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:21 am

RE: Eurpean Airline/Pilot Hiring

Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:59 am

thanks saab2000!


highflyer
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