Blackbird
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Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:27 am

What commercial airliners from 1949 to present have the lowest takeoff and landing speeds?

Also what commercial aircraft from 1949 to present have the shortest takeoff and landing runs?

Andrea K
 
dc9northwest
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:27 pm

Shortest landing/takeoff runs: I would guess either the DHC-6 or the DHC-7... I'm not sure if this is accurate or not.
Hope it helps.
 
xjet
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:42 pm

Quoting Dc9northwest (Reply 1):
Shortest landing/takeoff runs: I would guess either the DHC-6 or the DHC-7... I'm not sure if this is accurate or not.
Hope it helps.

I would agree. If you are talking jets, I would say the RJ100 or BAE-146 has a very slow rotation speed. As well as the Dornier 328J (I have no actual experience in this airframe). Also for the size the 757 has very impressive short-field performance. Another that isn't an airliner per se is the C-17. 800 feet to stop at max gross weight.
 
dl757md
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:06 pm

Quoting XJET (Reply 2):
Also for the size the 757 has very impressive short-field performance

Yes it does

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Blackbird
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:58 am

I was talking about Jets only.

What enables the C-17 to stop so quickly?
 
MD11Fanatic
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:02 am

Low approach speeds, big-time thrust reverse, and some powerful brakes!
 
BAE146QT
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting XJET (Reply 2):
BAE-146 has a very slow rotation speed

I'll say. Some info from my electronic kneeboard;


V1: 105 - 120
VR: 110 - 125
V2: 120 - 135
Approach Speed (VREF): 157 @ Flaps 30



Note that those figures are for a particular model in FS2004. Usual cautions apply, though I would hope that someone in a position to be in command of one wouldn't need to refer to an A.Net post for figures.

Interesting that the approach speed is (apparently) higher than a 734, assuming the figures are correct.

Mr. Click; you seem happy to spare the time for us wannabes - could you comment please?
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MrChips
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:22 am

Before you electron jockeys get too wound up in yourselves, read the first post in this thread:
Airliner Performance Observations (by Flyf15 Jan 31 2007 in Tech Ops)

It may go some way in explaining why you aren't getting any real answers here.
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Viscount724
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 6):
Quoting XJET (Reply 2):
BAE-146 has a very slow rotation speed

I'll say. Some info from my electronic kneeboard;

V1: 105 - 120
VR: 110 - 125
V2: 120 - 135
Approach Speed (VREF): 157 @ Flaps 30

From a passenger's perspective, I agree the BAe 146/Avro RJ seems to have a noticeably slower takeoff/landing speed than other jets. I fly on Swiss Avro RJ-85/100s quite often and have also noted that they also seem to be among the easiest aircraft to land smoothly, possibily partly due to the slow landing speed. Even a bad landing seems smooth compared to many larger jets, and many landings are so smooth you can barely tell that you've touched down except for the rumbling noise of the tires.

Another impression is that they seem to ride very well in turbulence, possibly related to the high wing.
 
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:53 pm

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 6):

Mr. Click; you seem happy to spare the time for us wannabes - could you comment please?

Well since he hasn't commented yet (hopefully soon,) I do recall him talking at length about BAE 146 performance, and mentioning that the plane was more like a SLLT (short landing long takeoff) plane than a STOL. I hope I'm remembering correctly, but I seem to recall this explaination pretty clearly.
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:46 pm

At light weights you could see v1/rotation and landing (ref) speeds for the EMB-135 in the 110 knot range.
 
BAE146QT
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:56 pm

Quoting MrChips:
Before you electron jockeys get too wound up in yourselves,

I wasn't going to, since this has nothing to do with FS. Those are just numbers and they're either in the right range or they're not, which is the question I was asking.

I mentioned they were from an FS plane for the same reason that topographical maps say "Not suitable for navigation" on them - because the world is full of stupid people doing stupid things.

Quoting MrChips:
read the first post in this thread:

I did. I also posted there. It roughly says;

"I fly light singles for real, so I know that FS isn't very realistic" and,

"this site helps me make the best of simulated jet flying, even though I know that's not very realistic either".

Quoting Speedracer1407:
I do recall him talking at length about BAE 146 performance,

You're right. I'll go and have a look at the answers there rather than bother him again.
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speedracer1407
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:25 pm

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 11):

You're right. I'll go and have a look at the answers there rather than bother him again.

No no, see we WANT him to add some good stories/info about flying the 146; there's always something new and informative. I was just recalling a discussion on the aircraft that was somewhat memorable--It's speed brake, and slow landing speeds made it a great aircraft for landing on really short fields, or possibly more importantly for its mission, landing short on contaminated runways. However, it's takeoff length and initial climbing abilities precluded it from being a relatively STOL jet. --Just what I remember.
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BAE146QT
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:37 pm

Quoting Speedracer1407:
No no, see we WANT him to add some good stories/info about flying the 146;

Definitely, but it's probably best not asking people the same questions they've answered before!

Anyway, I did do a little search and yes, there's a wealth of stuff... but it doesn't look like anyone ever asked that one.

The answer, however, is that VAPP for a 146-200 at 38 tonnes - a typical landing weight - is 124Kts.

So there you go.
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:15 pm

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 6):
Mr. Click; you seem happy to spare the time for us wannabes - could you comment please?

That's Captain Click to you, private. Big grin
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ThrottleHold
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:36 pm

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 6):
Approach Speed (VREF): 157 @ Flaps 30

Can't say I ever saw an approach speed anywhere near that in my time on the 146!

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 13):
The answer, however, is that VAPP for a 146-200 at 38 tonnes - a typical landing weight - is 124Kts.

Not being pedantic, but Vapp is an Airbus term. Vref is for others.
 
BAE146QT
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:06 am

Quoting ThrottleHold:
Can't say I ever saw an approach speed anywhere near that in my time on the 146!

No, it seemed a little high to me, too, but I didn't really notice until I saw it alongside the 737 figures. TBH, I probably transcribed it from the original document incorrectly.

Hey - maybe that explains why I was having trouble making the turn for the last taxiway at LHR 9L (just kidding).

Quoting ThrottleHold:
Not being pedantic, but Vapp is an Airbus term. Vref is for others.

The pedantry is appreciated - I had no idea, but am happy to learn.
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Blackbird
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:41 am

What's the shortest distance a 727 can take-off and land in (727-100) under standard conditions?

Andrea K

[Edited 2007-02-07 01:47:35]
 
mrocktor
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:42 pm

At what weight, bare bones or typical service weights? I bet an empty (i.e. no payload, 30 min fuel) B777 can post some nice numbers. The 787 probably more so (better OEW vs MTOW).

At operating weights, aircraft designed for short field operation will win out (BAe146, C-17 etc). At minimum weight its not that simple. Since you are not at the design point, the winner probably is:

1. a long range aircraft for a given weight class (because it is designed to take off at MTOW, and you are carrying no payload and minimum fuel)

2. a twin (excess power since it is designed to take off with one engine)
 
Blackbird
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:40 am

Mrocktor,

I meant service weights...
 
mrocktor
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:43 pm

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 19):
I meant service weights...

Look no further than short haul jetliners (designed for secondary airports) and military transports then. No regular jetliner will beat aircraft specifically designed for short field operation.
 
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zeke
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting Blackbird (Thread starter):
What commercial airliners from 1949 to present have the lowest takeoff and landing speeds?

For takeoff I have used the V2 speed, as V1 and VR maybe reduced for various reasons.

Top 10 with the lowest takeoff speeds (kt)

RJ70 119
RJ85 124
F70 126
RJ100 127
RJ115 127
DC 9-10 127
A319-100 133
F100 136
DC 9-30 137
Tu-154M 138

Top 10 for the lowest landing speeds (kt)

DC 9-10 115
F70 119
RJ70 121
Tu-154M 121
RJ85 122
RJ100 123
RJ115 123
DC 9-30 126
EMB-145 126
F100 128

Quoting Blackbird (Thread starter):

Also what commercial aircraft from 1949 to present have the shortest takeoff and landing runs?

Top 10 shortest takeoff distances (m)

F70 1296
RJ70 1440
EMB-145 1500
CRJ100 1605
DC 9-10 1615
RJ85 1646
A319-100 1750
767-200 1770
DC 9-30 1777
RJ100 1829


Top 10 shortest landing distances (m)

RJ70 1170
RJ85 1192
F70 1210
RJ100 1265
RJ115 1265
737-600 1268
EMB-145 1290
DC 9-30 1317
F100 1321
A319-100 1350
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Blackbird
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:57 am

What weights are these at?
 
xjet
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 21):
EMB-145 1500

Yeah, that's not going to happen.
 
xjet
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
I fly on Swiss Avro RJ-85/100s quite often and have also noted that they also seem to be among the easiest aircraft to land smoothly, possibily partly due to the slow landing speed.

The 146 has what's called "trailing link" landing gear. The main landing gear has a knuckle that adds a lot more suspension to the landing gear. Makes for a much softer touchdown on most occasions. The EMB-135/45 also has this feature. Although, it isn't as "big" of a knuckle. But every little bit helps!
 
Ryanair737
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Spee

Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:55 am

The 737-500 and 600 typically have low takeoff and landing speeds.

The A330-200 also has remarkably low landing speeds for the size of the aircraft which is generated by the length of the wing - quite often in the 135 kt region.

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zeke
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting Ryanair737 (Reply 25):

The A330-200 also has remarkably low landing speeds for the size of the aircraft which is generated by the length of the wing - quite often in the 135 kt region.

A380 is 138 !!
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xjet
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RE: Jetliners With Lowest Takeoff And Landing Speeds?

Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting Ryanair737 (Reply 25):
quite often in the 135 kt region

This is actually a common speed for a lot of airliners.

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