DeltaGuy
Topic Author
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How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:00 am

And by clean, I mean astetics- any smudges, blue pen marks, strikethroughs, etc?

I have a bit of a coffee spill on the top edges of the pages of my logbook- caused by an "empty" cup being thrown into my helmet bag, which evidently still had a sip or two left in it- result, some messed up books. What should I do about it?

How critically will airlines examine your books during an interview? Can they judge you on slopyness, or will they ask for a copy of the last two pages and be done with it?

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
Ralgha
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:29 am

Some look at them carefully, others don't look at them at all. Overall I think people worry too much about it, I don't think you should worry at all.
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N231YE
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:37 am

Mine has a large crack on the front cover, from being smashed by a seat in a Cessna.

Otherwise, my logbook is perfectly fine.
 
lowrider
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:34 am

Mine had a few coffee stains, various line-outs and corrections, and has various shades of "black" ink. Most employers understand that this is a working document and, while you try to keep it clean, accidents and mistakes happen. So long as it is fairly neat and legible and it is obvious you have made the effort to keep it that way, future employers will understand.
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futureualpilot
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:44 am

My logbook has a few corrections, line outs, and re-writes. The pages are in good shape but the hard cover is looking worn these days. I agree with the above, most employers know this is your story, history, work in progress, etc. From what I hear as long as your times are correct and add up to within a couple tenths of an hour you will be good. That being said I would imagine keeping it as accurate as possible is the best bet.
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wing
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:30 pm

This is a story of having clean and especially correctly written logboogs;

This JAROPS nowadays brought very big differences in European aviaiton.Logbooks were not excluded.I have ATPL since 2001 but as Turkeys CAA,adjusts to JAA we convert our licences according to JAR's.Logbook should be presented during the conversion procedures.And here is my surprise ;

After 7 years of airline flying the person working in the Turkish CAA found that 70 hours of PIC flying I logged was logged as DUAL( Dual means training flights with the Instructor onboard the airplane,I wasnt aware that I should also write that under the PIC column. They check the last page of the logboog and sum of PIC+Copilot should be equal to your total flight hours.What happens is now after 4000 hours of total flying,my PIC time is now 70 hours different than the total sum should read.I was like "who cares about 70 hours of C172 Flight,besides its logged and stamped only not written in PIC column but to DUAL column.But hell no said the friendly person on the CAA,I corrected the page from 1998 and after that page each and every "PAGE TOTAL" had to be cleaned and rewriten again(considering the fact that I am using my 3rd logboog) it was a pain giving process.

So my advice to all new pilots, keep your logbooks correct and accurate.And always have it stamped and signed by the chief pilot to prove it.Unstamped logbooks is equal to 0 flight time even it is written 100000 hours on it.
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DeltaGuy
Topic Author
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:21 am

Wing, unfortunately we don't have stamps over here, AFAIK. Just your signature. I know military logbooks have a signature provided by your CO or OPSO.

Is it kosher to use white-out to make a correction? I mean not on every page, but I had a few boo-boos and simply writing over it didn't work.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
lowrider
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:28 am

Quoting Deltaguy (Reply 6):
Is it kosher to use white-out to make a correction?

No. A single line through with your initials is how to do it. Obliteration of an entry is a not acceptable. If you can't fit the correction next to the error, make an entry on the next line with the not explaining the correction.
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Ryanair737
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:45 am

This was discussed here a few weeks ago in detail - Logbook Etiquette (by JSC_23 Feb 6 2003 in Tech Ops).

I try to keep mine as neat as possible, no mistakes yet. Black ink only as well! It really is a crucial document so I really do take care in making sure that everything is properly entered.

737
LAST FLIGHTS= Ryanair LPL-BGY-LPL - EI-DPS/DWV - MAY 08 // NEXT FLIGHTS= TBC
 
wing
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting Deltaguy (Reply 6):
Wing, unfortunately we don't have stamps over here, AFAIK. Just your signature

Yes I know,when I finished my flights at Embry Riddle I my logbook was not signed and stamped.But my father(who is a captain) reminded me to have it stamped before coming to Turkey.Now I am curious how come the airlines in the US credit your flight experience?I am sure there has been occurrences that a candidate may exaggerate the flying experience to get the job?How does the airlines deal with this?

For me if I need a corrcetion I only draw a single line on it and write the correct one.If it needs to be "tippexed" and changes a sum on the flight experience I sign my initial on it.Thanks to our crew rostering if anybody needs an explanation about an insertion on my logbook,I can always recieve an official detail copy of that particular flight.
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jamesbuk
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:38 am

Mine is pretty neat. No marks, all in one colour pen, blue, and i make sure its always in that for aesthetic purposes.

I've filled about 2 pages of mine so far (done about 20 hours) so theres not been to much chance for it to go wrong  silly 

Rgds --James--
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Ralgha
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:08 am

I've never had anyone go ape over my logbook in the US. I've made mistakes, used different color pens, some of the page totals are in pencil, some old math errors are corrected years later in a single line with an explanation in the remarks. Overall it's in good shape though. My logbook has been reviewed by examiners, airlines, and the FAA. Not a single one has batted an eye about any of it.
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wing
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:42 am

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 10):
I've filled about 2 pages of mine so far (done about 20 hours) so theres not been to much chance for it to go wrong

My first 2 pages were neat too,it got slopy after the end of the first logbook,it got crappier after the end of second logbook,and as I near the end of my third logbook nowadays it almost got berzerk.Its because I have to write after every leg after finishing writing the maintenance book,crew roostering book,flight plan envelopes,engine parameters of that leg.And sometimes we have to change aircraft after that leg,so I have to do these over and over again.If I don t write the logbook then I loose the end of the rope in a very few days.I end up trying to catch up writing 3, 4 legged days and whoops there goes 12 lines to mess the book.
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cancidas
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:31 am

i've got a few cross outs and one or two torn pages. most of my helo time was kept for me and i only got a print out. i entered all that into a logbook manually. it took me almost a month to do since i was trying to keep it as neat as possible. i keep my logs in a ziploc bag when they're in my flightbag, at least they'll stay dry that way. i've never white-outed anything there, just a cross out for boo-boos. the more tattered of the two books is my airplane log, as it had been floating around my flightbag since i began training. it got wet once but i left it on the counter with a hardryer blowing on it for an hour. for the most part, i've used the same pan and ink cartridges to fill them out.


anybody ever use pencils to fill out logs? we do so at work, and i only know a handful of pilots who do so. the reason i ask is graphite lasts longer than ink.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
Ralgha
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:47 am

Why does anyone take their logbook flying with them unless they need it for an instructor to sign? I'm sure there's some other valid reason, but most of the time it's pointless and just helps damage it.
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futureualpilot
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:38 am

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 14):
Why does anyone take their logbook flying with them unless they need it for an instructor to sign? I'm sure there's some other valid reason, but most of the time it's pointless and just helps damage it.


IIRC, a licensed pilot must have a government issued photo ID (driver's license, military ID, etc), pilots license/certificate, a valid medical, and logbook with him/her (to show currency) at all times if he/she is going to operate an aircraft. Otherwise, you are correct.

[Edited 2007-02-21 03:43:04]
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Ralgha
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:04 pm

Quoting Futureualpilot (Reply 15):
nd logbook with him/her (to show currency) at all times if he/she is going to operate an aircraft

There is nothing that requires you to carry your logbook with you, or proof of (pilot) currency for that matter, unless you are a student pilot flying a solo cross-country flight, or a recreational pilot under certain circumstances. A "reasonable request" for your logbook means you set up an appointment to go see an inspector at the local FSDO. Like I said, there are a few reasons to carry your logbook in the airplane, namely the two I just listed (and having it with you for an instructor's signature), and probably a couple obscure ones that don't pertain to regs. Most of the time there is no need to have it and you shouldn't have it.
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futureualpilot
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:31 pm

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 16):
A "reasonable request" for your logbook means you set up an appointment to go see an inspector at the local FSDO.

Good call, sorry I incorrectly recalled that FAR.
Life is better when you surf.
 
wing
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:39 pm

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 14):
Why does anyone take their logbook flying with them unless they need it for an instructor to sign? I'm sure there's some other valid reason, but most of the time it's pointless and just helps damage it.

JAR OPS requires the pilot of the airplane should have the "logbook present at all times.It is one of the items checked during SAFA (safety assesment of foreign aircraft)checks and the inspector determines that you are within your duty limits by looking at your past flight hours for the last day,last week and last month.
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
DKCFII
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:05 am

I try to keep it relatively neat, but there's definately a quite a few whiteouts and crossouts in my first logbook. I'm trying to keep the second one a little neater. I just total up my hours at the end of the week one time, this stops a lot of the wear and tear from playing with it a lot.
 
wing
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:48 am

Anybody here uses the electronic logbooks?I checked the evaluatioN version of "logbook pro" which looks pretty useful but there is only one problem.It seems to be only logging the hours in tens of an hour,but I log my times as 1:45 minutes instead of 1.7. Anybody here has any information about "logbookpro" how I can convert the times to European style rather than the American?Or I will appreciate if anybody knows any other programmes which will serve my needs.
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usair320
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:07 am

Mine is clean being that it has only flown 55 hrs.
 
pilotpip
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RE: How Clean Are Your Logbooks?

Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:25 pm

Wing,

I'm using logbook pro as a way to make sure everything in my paper log matches up. I like it, especially as I start to fly a variety of makes and models. It's been handy the couple of times I've had to fill out an 8710 since starting with it and extremely helpful while filling out insurance forms for my students and keeping the resume up-to-date.

As for the "European" style, I'm not sure. I've had great experience with the company that produces logbook pro when it comes to customer support and questions. I'd send them an email.
DMI

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