CoolGuy
Topic Author
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What Do These Remarks Mean For LGA

Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:35 pm

RY 13 VASI AND ILS NOT COINCIDENTAL (I know what VASI and ILS are but what does this mean?)
RY 13 300 FT CLEARWAY
B747-400 AIRCRAFT RESTRICTED TO 10 KNOT TAXI SPEED ON ALL TAXIWAYS (I know what that means, but what's the reasoning?)


From http://skyvector.com/airport/LGA/La-Guardia-Airport
 
PhilSquares
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RE: What Do These Remarks Mean For LGA

Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:22 pm

Quoting CoolGuy (Thread starter):
RY 13 VASI AND ILS NOT COINCIDENTAL

The glide paths are not the same. The touchdown point is not the same for ILS and VASI.

Quoting CoolGuy (Thread starter):
B747-400 AIRCRAFT RESTRICTED TO 10 KNOT TAXI SPEED ON ALL TAXIWAYS

Ramp congestion and taxiway width.

Quoting CoolGuy (Thread starter):
RY 13 300 FT CLEARWAY

At the departure end of Rwy 13 there is a 327'X170 EMAS clearway. See http://www.airnav.com/airport/KLGA
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corey07850
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RE: What Do These Remarks Mean For LGA

Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:32 pm

Quoting CoolGuy (Thread starter):
RY 13 VASI AND ILS NOT COINCIDENTAL

Meaning if you are say, flying the ILS and are dead on glideslope, you may not appear to be on glideslope according to the VASI. FAA Navaid engineers have told me that when VASI's were installed many years ago the ground they were installed on wasn't prepared as well as it should have and it's very common to have a VASI setup slowly sink into the ground, causing the angles to slightly shift.

Quoting CoolGuy (Thread starter):
RY 13 300 FT CLEARWAY

http://www.aviation-terms.com/index2...71-90&sCurrentLetter=C&nTermID=383

See that definition of clearway

Quoting CoolGuy (Thread starter):


B747-400 AIRCRAFT RESTRICTED TO 10 KNOT TAXI SPEED ON ALL TAXIWAYS

That's actually a typo... should be 767-400
 
CoolGuy
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RE: What Do These Remarks Mean For LGA

Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:41 pm

Is it even possible for a B747-400 to take off from the 7000ft runways at LGA (I know that's fine for landing)?
 
2H4
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RE: What Do These Remarks Mean For LGA

Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:50 pm




Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 1):
Ramp congestion and taxiway width.

I don't understand how limiting taxi speed alleviates ramp congestion. Further, what's the logic behind limiting the taxi speed of only large aircraft?

Maybe I'm just getting sleepy, but I don't understand...


2H4


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lowrider
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RE: What Do These Remarks Mean For LGA

Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:09 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
Further, what's the logic behind limiting the taxi speed of only large aircraft?

Having seen a 767-400 taxi around La Guardia, I don't think you would want to taxi any faster than that. Not only are the wing tip clearences tight, bit the main gear to taxiway edge margin is tight as well. I don't know how it will alleiviate congestion though.
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2H4
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RE: What Do These Remarks Mean For LGA

Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:16 pm



I wonder if limiting the speed of large/heavy aircraft is in any way related to reducing the pavement loading. If, for example, an aircraft is right at the maximum weight/pavement loading limit, braking and/or turning at higher speeds could transfer quite a bit of weight onto one landing gear...perhaps causing damage to the taxiway or ramp.

Just thinking out loud....


2H4


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PhilSquares
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RE: What Do These Remarks Mean For LGA

Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:16 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 6):
I wonder if limiting the speed of large/heavy aircraft is in any way related to reducing the pavement loading. If, for example, an aircraft is right at the maximum weight/pavement loading limit, braking and/or turning at higher speeds could transfer quite a bit of weight onto one landing gear...perhaps causing damage to the taxiway or ramp.

No....

The issue on the taxi speed is purely due to ramp congestion, narrow taxiways. They (PANY) just want to make sure people are extra vigilant.
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Boeing7E7
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RE: What Do These Remarks Mean For LGA

Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:23 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 6):
I wonder if limiting the speed of large/heavy aircraft is in any way related to reducing the pavement loading. If, for example, an aircraft is right at the maximum weight/pavement loading limit, braking and/or turning at higher speeds could transfer quite a bit of weight onto one landing gear...perhaps causing damage to the taxiway or ramp.

To create more space to park delayed aircraft, LGA reduced their taxiway separations to a hybrid centered on the 767. They use "taxilane" separation standards vs. "taxiway" separation standards for taxiways not associated with runway access. As such, what would normally be 187' of separation (centerline to centerline between taxiways) is instead 172' feet . This leaves enough wingtip clearance, but not as much as one would desire. The result is slower taxi speeds for larger aircraft to reduce incident potential.

[Edited 2007-02-22 07:24:58]
 
2H4
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RE: What Do These Remarks Mean For LGA

Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:46 pm



Thanks, guys.  Smile


2H4


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cancidas
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RE: What Do These Remarks Mean For LGA

Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 2):
Quoting CoolGuy (Thread starter):


B747-400 AIRCRAFT RESTRICTED TO 10 KNOT TAXI SPEED ON ALL TAXIWAYS

That's actually a typo... should be 767-400

i've personally seen the DL 764s taxi faster than that, and have stood under the singtip as it passed overhead while the airplane taxiied by on A.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 6):
I wonder if limiting the speed of large/heavy aircraft is in any way related to reducing the pavement loading. If, for example, an aircraft is right at the maximum weight/pavement loading limit, braking and/or turning at higher speeds could transfer quite a bit of weight onto one landing gear...perhaps causing damage to the taxiway or ramp.

Just thinking out loud....

it is. the reason they are restricted is more for the piers that support the ends of runways 4 and 13. taxiing faster than that would out stress on the piers and could lead to the junction between the pier and the taxiway bed breaking. what interesting is the types of airplanes that are restricted from even landing. the 707 and DC-8 are not allowed to land at LGA due to "landing gear loading.'' what's strange is that a 737-800 and 707 aren't that far apart in weights while the 737 has 4 less wheels to distribute the weight.
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2H4
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RE: What Do These Remarks Mean For LGA

Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:19 am




Quoting Cancidas (Reply 10):
the 707 and DC-8 are not allowed to land at LGA due to "landing gear loading.''

I thought the 727 had the highest landing gear loading of any airliner.....


2H4


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cancidas
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RE: What Do These Remarks Mean For LGA

Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:26 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 11):
I thought the 727 had the highest landing gear loading of any airliner.....

i thought so too, but my info came straight from PORT. they weren't able to explain that one, the guy isn't that old.
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MrFord
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RE: What Do These Remarks Mean For LGA

Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:34 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 11):
I thought the 727 had the highest landing gear loading of any airliner.....

Even more than the L1011 ? Which was authorized to land there, if I'm correct...
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2H4
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RE: What Do These Remarks Mean For LGA

Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:01 am




Quoting MrFord (Reply 13):
Even more than the L1011 ?

I can't remember where I read it, but I remember seeing more than one source claim the 727 had the "honor"...


2H4


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OPNLguy
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RE: What Do These Remarks Mean For LGA

Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:06 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 14):
I can't remember where I read it, but I remember seeing more than one source claim the 727 had the "honor"...

At Air Florida, we had some 727-200s with -17R engines, with max takeoff weights of just over 200,000 lbs, but at LGA, the "pier limit" knocked that down to 176,000 lbs... A pretty big hit....
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3DPlanes
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RE: What Do These Remarks Mean For LGA

Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:37 am

Isn't the "pier issue" more to do with weight per area rather than weight per gear? I'm sure wheel or gear loading are also important, but I thought the issue with the 767 was the amount of weight over a certain distance - hence the reason for changing the gear spacing vice adding more wheels.

Though I don't have the numbers to look at, that might explain the reasoning behind the 737 vs 707 difference above. More wheels lessens the psi loading, but if the bogies where further apart, that might allow them to spread across more piers.

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