CoolGuy
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What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:56 pm

Suppose an aircraft is on a straight taxiway in clear weather with no other aircraft around at JFK. What's the maximum speed?
 
2H4
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:21 pm



In many cases, the maximum taxi speed is governed by the individual company's ops manual. I know of one that calls for taxi speeds not to exceed that of a "brisk walk". Actually limiting taxi speeds to a "brisk walk", of course, would grind things to a halt at congested airports...so in reality, the limitation is largely ignored for the sake of operational efficiency.


2H4


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KELPkid
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:43 pm

As 2H4 pointed out, the literal wording is "taxi no faster than a man can walk," however in reality you will hold up the show if you taxi that slow  Smile There's some give and take, but should you taxi too fast and cause an accident during a ground movement by taxiing too quickly, well, that's your ticket and your pride that are on the line  Wink

I suppose with GPS you can actually gauge your groundspeed these days, however the airspeed indicator will always read "0" (except when taxiing into a strong headwind  Wink ). I remember one night landing at TTD (Troutdale, OR) with a very strong wind straight down the runway. After an incredibly short landing (we made the first taxiway exit  Wink ), the airspeed in the 172 was reading 40 knots...and taxiing back was a royal pain in the rump because the plane wanted to weathervane into the wind (good time for remembering how to hold the controls while taxiing in a strong wind!).
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cptspeaking
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:46 pm

Are you WN or any other airline?  spin 

(disregarding the hypothetical location)

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PhilSquares
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:18 pm

Generally, you'll find most companies limit taxi speed on long straight taxiways to between 20-25 knots. I do know of some airlines who monitor excessive taxi speeds and use the DFDR to ensure compliance.

On the 744/747 90 degree turns with full tiller are limited to 10 knots.
Fly fast, live slow
 
Stealthz
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:30 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 2):
man can walk

Generally considered to be approx 4MPH or 6.4KPH.
DOM2 at SYD to holding point T6 RWY 34R is approx 4.5KM, at walking pace would comprise 45min or so of a 1hr 25min block time(SYD-BNE), walking pace I don't think so!

I do understand how that walking speed restriction would (and likely should) apply in the ramp area though!

Cheers
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:15 am

I know MSY's management has jokingly threatened WN with speedbumps in the past...

...and on the opposite end of the spectrum are AA's S80s.
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Zkpilot
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:42 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 1):


In many cases, the maximum taxi speed is governed by the individual company's ops manual. I know of one that calls for taxi speeds not to exceed that of a "brisk walk". Actually limiting taxi speeds to a "brisk walk", of course, would grind things to a halt at congested airports...so in reality, the limitation is largely ignored for the sake of operational efficiency.

maybe on the apron... out on the taxiways especially for a long taxi that would take forever! 3000m! I'd say most planes taxi around at about 25km/h (15mph) but often faster or if busy then slower.
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JETBLUEATASW
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:50 am

I agree that the average speed limit is about 15-20mph. If u fly jetblue, the mapquest channel allows u to view that kind of stuff. Last time i flew Jetblue in August 2006, the taxi speed was 20mph if i recall correctly
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EridanMan
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:21 am

Its funny actually, as a student who is just a few hours from my checkflight, I commented to my instructor the other day that throughout the whole learning process, we never formally touched on 'taxi speed'.

He laughed and said it was one of those things where, really, you just kinda have to 'feel' it. On a ramp? Absolutely no faster than someone can walk... Taxi to the end of a 5200 foot active in a spam-can? you can be the tower appreciates maintaining a reasonably brisk clip...

I think the term 'Reasonable and Prudent' is probably the best descriptor of Taxi speed limits, for any aircraft.
 
Blackbird
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:24 am

PhilSquares,

Which airlines are really so anal about taxi speeds that they actually check the DFDR to ensure compliance?

Andrea K
 
TheSonntag
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:39 pm

Just sit in a Ryanair plane... I think they beat all others on that term  Wink
 
PhilSquares
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:48 pm

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 10):
PhilSquares,

Which airlines are really so anal about taxi speeds that they actually check the DFDR to ensure compliance?

It's not a matter of checking but the software in the DFDR will record an event and it's sent via ACARS and the DFDR is then analyized to see what the event was. I can think of several airlines that monitor taxi speed and virtually all airlines that have current generation aircraft have a Flight Data Analysis Program or a program extremely similar.
Fly fast, live slow
 
Blackbird
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:37 pm

What airlines monitor taxi speeds? (Instinctively you'd figure people would have better things to do than monitor the taxi speed)

Andrea K
 
PhilSquares
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:16 pm

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 13):
What airlines monitor taxi speeds? (Instinctively you'd figure people would have better things to do than monitor the taxi speed)

Andrea K

As I discretely tried to write, all airlines that have a FOQA, or some other program will monitor taxispeed. Even things like N1 are monitored while taxying. It's all electronic and requires no effort......
Fly fast, live slow
 
wing
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:36 pm

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 10):
PhilSquares,

Which airlines are really so anal about taxi speeds that they actually check the DFDR to ensure compliance

More than you can imagine,if we think about many aviation accidents occur on the ground rather than in the air.Actually not only the taxi speeds but all stages of the flight is monitored by the "big brothers" and our training department issues memorandums about the mistakes.This is particularly useful against some pilots who constantly disobeys the SOP standards.
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legoguy
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:23 pm

What's the taxi speed limit when turning off the runway onto a fast exit taxiway (taxiway with a small angle between the runway)?
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oly720man
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:28 pm

I was once talking to someone at MAN and he said the police had clocked RYR planes doing 50 or 60mph (the speed check presumably out of curiosity). Time is money, I suppose.
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Blackbird
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:54 am

Phil Squares,

I take it Southwest, and Ryanair don't check taxi-speeds? :p
 
TheCol
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:37 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 1):
I know of one that calls for taxi speeds not to exceed that of a "brisk walk".



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 2):
"taxi no faster than a man can walk,"

WestJet defines "walking speed" as 6km/h. Mind you, that usually applies to ground staff (ie. push-back) rather than the plane itself. Transport Canada regulations state that no vehicle an exceed 25km/h on the apron. Again, that may differ from aircraft movement regs.
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Blackbird
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:49 am

PhilSquares,

I more accurately meant to say which airlines actually care a lot about taxi speeds, btw

Andrea Kent
 
PhilSquares
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:37 pm

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 20):
PhilSquares,

I more accurately meant to say which airlines actually care a lot about taxi speeds, btw

Andrea Kent

If an airline has a FOQA (or similar) program they can set whatever threshold they want for excursions. For example, stabilized approaches are a big one. So, at my airline, an excursion is when you're below 1000' AGL, gear is not down, or flaps aren't in the landing position and EPR is not 1.01 or above. You will get a letter from the FOQA people asking if you can remember what happened on this flight and this date. In addition, you get a print out of about 3 minutes worth of data.

As far as what airlines care about taxi speed, I'd day all do. It's spelled out in the SOP. Perhaps WN and FR have higher taxi speeds in their SOP. It's not something that comes directly from the aircraft manufacturer.
Fly fast, live slow
 
Blackbird
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:56 am

So all airlines pay attention to it?

Andrea
 
TheSonntag
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:24 am

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 18):
I take it Southwest, and Ryanair don't check taxi-speeds? :p

Maybe they order a minimum speed  Wink
 
Blackbird
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:18 pm

I saw this file on Flightlevel350, taken inside a Ryanair 737-200 I think...

Man did they taxi like mad, I think they even had SWA beat by a margin...

Andrea K
 
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GEG
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:06 am

Does the weight of the aircraft have an impact on the speed it can taxi at, so would a higher weight lend itself to lower taxi speeds?

-Dan
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Blackbird
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:08 am

So, PhilSquares, some airlines program in a lower threshold into the FOQA so that any speed which violates that restrictin will be logged and reported?

Obviously Southwest, Ryanair apparently have a very high threshold programmed in if any at all, or do not pay attention to it. Some airlines program in slower values and as a result pilots taxy slower to avoid getting in trouble correct?

Andrea K
 
Blackbird
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:29 am

Nobody?

Andrea K
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PhilSquares
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:58 am

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 26):
So, PhilSquares, some airlines program in a lower threshold into the FOQA so that any speed which violates that restrictin will be logged and reported?

The airlines can put in any value they desire. If they don't want to monitor taxi speed, they don't have to. It's entirely up to the airline.

Remember, this is all done through the DFDR and ACARS. If there is an event threshold exceeded, ACARS will send the parameters and the DFDR will be downloaded at a later time. This doesn't require a lot of time and effort on the airline's part. The biggest deal is sanatizing the info so if it's published you can't trace who the crew was.
Fly fast, live slow
 
Blackbird
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:29 am

So, which airlines program in really low thresholds? I'm guessing here, but American, and Delta would probably be on the list eh?

In regards to which airlines don't program in thresholds, I'd say SWA and Ryannair would qualify eh?

Andrea K
 
PhilSquares
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:00 am

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 29):
So, which airlines program in really low thresholds? I'm guessing here, but American, and Delta would probably be on the list eh?

In regards to which airlines don't program in thresholds, I'd say SWA and Ryannair would qualify eh?

To be honest, those programs and their thresholds are pretty confidential among all the airlines. Even within an airline it's not something the pilots are aware of. Their only duty is to comply with SOP, if they do that then nothing happens.
Fly fast, live slow
 
Blackbird
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:46 am

Phil Squares,

If it's confidential, and pilots don't know about it... and you're a 747 pilot, how do you know about it? :-P

Andrea Kent
 
PhilSquares
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 31):
Phil Squares,

If it's confidential, and pilots don't know about it... and you're a 747 pilot, how do you know about it? :-P

Easy, I know people at other airlines who have been "debriefed" about their taxi speeds. For instance at SQ, stabilised approached are a very hot item. If you are slightly fast and stop at flaps 25, and then descend below 1000' and then select flaps 30, there will be an event reported for "late landing configuration". As a technique, especially with inexperienced pilots or during line training, I will tell them just to make the necessary adjustments for Vref and land with 25 flaps, which is an acceptable landing configuration. Then we'll debrief it on the ground. Although, I think the program has definite merits, in a situation such as I described, it really doesn't accomplish much. (my opinion only). I think a much better use for the program would to review the data and use it in recurrent simulator training.

If you're really bored in flight, you can go and see what the settings are for the FOQA program in the CMC reports. But, to be honest there are so many I just can't be bothered to remember them all. One I do know is a IVSI in excess of 600 fpm on landing, or a flare length of over 12 seconds (from idle stop to ground sensing).

My philosophy is if you fly the SOP, you won't get into any trouble at all. Has worked form me for over 30 years, no reason to change now.
Fly fast, live slow
 
Blackbird
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:08 am

How much trouble do you get into if you screw up?
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:11 pm

I heard that in Germany, they can go as fast as they want.  Wink
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wing
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:38 pm

Quoting InnocuousFox (Reply 34):
heard that in Germany, they can go as fast as they want.

I think you are mixing Autobahns with airport taxiways...
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motopolitico
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:47 am

Spotting at SDF in the middle of the night, I've noticed aircraft taxiing at a fair clip on the usually inactive diagonal runway. Since I would presume that active runways don't usually have a speed limit, would an inactive runway differ from a taxiway in that regard?
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NASOCEANA
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:30 am

I once heard that pilots would purposely slow taxi during contract neogations to more clearly get their points across to upper management. Would this be true?
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LVTMB
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:17 pm

Last year I had to connect through FRA a few times and had time to kill while waiting for my flights. I noticed that not only taxi speed but also towing speed was substantially higher than what I am used to observe in the USA.

MB
 
boysteve
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting GEG (Reply 25):
Does the weight of the aircraft have an impact on the speed it can taxi at, so would a higher weight lend itself to lower taxi speeds?

From personal observation at MAN yes. The PK and EK 777's can take an age to trundle pass the viewing park whereas the B737 and A320 types pass at significantly higher speed.
 
Boston92
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:51 am

I remember an OO flight into LAX on an EM2 where we might have well landed on the taxiway. There were two company (UA) 747, and one company 777 behind us and we were told to exit 6/7 R/L asap. We landed, full stopping pwr and exited the runway doing at LEAST 90 - 100 knots.
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757MDE
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:33 pm

Quoting NASOCEANA (Reply 37):
I once heard that pilots would purposely slow taxi during contract neogations to more clearly get their points across to upper management.

This happened in Avianca some years ago when they were almost bankrupt and in the C-11. It was called "Operación Tortuga" ("Operation Turtle"). The Pilots would taxi really slow, take their full allowed time for lunch (in practice they used less than half) and stuff like that.
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Blackbird
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:26 pm

PhilSquares,

When did the Airlines start monitoring taxi-speeds using the FOQA and Flight Recorder? If you can't think of an exact year, can you at least give me a decade?

Andrea Kent
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:23 pm

15-20 kts.
Think about those Tires overheating & wearing out before time.

Out here there is one operator that Taxies above 25kts almost 80% of the time.They'll get to the stand faster,The Pax are happier,But what about the Tires after that long drive.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Blackbird
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:45 am

When did the legacy-airlines start installing the FOQA system to monitor taxi-speeds?

Andrea K
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 42):
can you at least give me a decade?

Late 1990's I know a number of operators were using some form of FOQA data.....and that data isn't put of for public consumption too often, if it is for whatever reason, the data is totally sanitized.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 32):
For instance at SQ, stabilised approached are a very hot item.

as PhiSquares notes at his company, it is also closely watched at quite a few airlines, and the FOQA data is used to track the 1,000' AGL stabilized approached.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 32):
I think a much better use for the program would to review the data and use it in recurrent simulator training.

I believe some airlines do that very thing.

Quoting NASOCEANA (Reply 37):
I once heard that pilots would purposely slow taxi during contract neogations to more clearly get their points across to upper management. Would this be true?

It has been known to happen but not too often from what I've witnessed in the 7-8 years.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
mandala499
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:25 am

Some variables that they use:

Approach Criterias: (altitudes are AGL)
1. Descent rates >1000fpm below 1000ft
2. N1 <50% between 1000ft and 50ft...
3. Speed below 1000ft
4. ILS deviation between 1000 and 200ft
5. Flare (time between idle and ground sensing detect)
6. Use of reversers below 50kts
7. Flap position increase below 1000ft (or 500ft)
8. Gear deployment below 1000ft
9. Use of speedbrakes below 1000ft
10. IRS tail and crosswind exceeding limits on flare

Taxi criteria:
1. IRS Ground speed >25kts at N1 <30% at flaps <15
2. IRS heading change >10deg at >10kt at N1 <30% at flaps <15
3. N1>30% at flaps 0

Take off criteria:
1. IRS tail and cross wind exceeding on t/o roll
2. Sink rate <500ft AGL
3. Bank angle <25 deg <500ft AGL

As you see, it's whatever the company wants to note for SOP violations etc.
The airline probably would announce it to the crew that FOQA is installed, but do not say what criterias are used etc...

Mandala499
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InnocuousFox
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:09 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 43):
15-20 kts.
Think about those Tires overheating & wearing out before time.

Out here there is one operator that Taxies above 25kts almost 80% of the time.They'll get to the stand faster,The Pax are happier,But what about the Tires after that long drive.

Uh... Geometry 101, the tires rotate the same number of times no matter how quickly you taxi.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
2H4
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:14 am

Quoting InnocuousFox (Reply 47):
Uh... Geometry 101, the tires rotate the same number of times no matter how quickly you taxi.

Faster taxiing produces higher tire temperatures. Higher tire temperatures result in increased wear.

Mel knows what he's talking about.  yes 

2H4

Intentionally Left Blank
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What's The Speed Limit At Airports?

Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:29 pm

Quoting InnocuousFox (Reply 47):
the tires rotate the same number of times no matter how quickly you taxi



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 48):
Faster taxiing produces higher tire temperatures. Higher tire temperatures result in increased wear.

Mel knows what he's talking about

Thanks 2H4.

The accumulation of stress in the Tires added by the High temperature build up due to this faster than average taxing reduces tire life.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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