MD11Fanatic
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What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:47 am

Hey all,

I was just looking over the KLGB chart and I see a number of areas indicated as "LAHSO" and they appear usually 2/3 of the way down the runway and usually before or after an intersecting runway. I have a feeling it has something to do with landing and hold short -something- because of the location of these lines.

What does LAHSO stand for officially?
 
KELPkid
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:50 am

Land and Hold Short Operations...

If you accept a LAHSO clearance, you have to stop before the intersecting runway. I do believe a hold short line is actually painted on the runway where LAHSO ops are specified...
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2H4
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:50 am



Land And Hold Short Operations.


2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:53 am

Quoting MD11Fanatic (Thread starter):
I have a feeling it has something to do with landing and hold short -something- because of the location of these lines.

Your feelings are correct!

Land and Hold Short Operations (LAHSO)
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N231YE
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting MD11Fanatic (Thread starter):
I have a feeling it has something to do with landing and hold short -something- because of the location of these lines.

 checkmark . As stated above, it is Land And Hold Short Operations (LAHSO).
 
Soku39
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:58 am

It stands for Land and Hold Short Operations. ATC will give you the option to accept the clearence or not. They will give you the length in which you must be stopped, which determines whether or not you accept it. If you do you must stop before the intersecting runway. It basicaly helps them out so they can get two planes down at the same time or have someone else depart on the intersecting runway.
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IAHFLYR
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:09 am

Quoting Soku39 (Reply 5):
If you do you must stop before the intersecting runway

Might not be an intersecting runway, could be a point on your landing runway to hold short of for aircraft crossing the runway on taxiways such as like this LAHSO on Runway 8R/26L at KIAH:

http://avn.faa.gov/d-tpp/0702/05461AD.PDF

Also found at other airports that cross traffic from the parallel runways such as KDFW.
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Tristarsteve
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:21 am

BA flight ops specifically forbid their crews from taking part in LAHSO operations.
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:25 am

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 7):
BA flight ops specifically forbid their crews from taking part in LAHSO operations.

As do some other airlines.
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highflyer9790
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:45 am

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 7):
BA flight ops specifically forbid their crews from taking part in LAHSO operations.

whats the reasoning?
121
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:21 am

Quoting HighFlyer9790 (Reply 9):
whats the reasoning?

My best guess among what I am sure is many, they don't train for it so it isn't in their FOM nor is it easy to keep up with all the possible configurations at some airports, and in some cases it doesn' t make a lick of sense. Example, if a GA aircraft is involved in a LAHSO operation guess who has to do the hold short? No not the guy flying a C172 who has a 6,500' LAHSO point but the guy in the B772 after an 8 hr international flight and has a 8,500' LAHSO point!
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vikkyvik
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:16 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
I do believe a hold short line is actually painted on the runway where LAHSO ops are specified...

Indeed. At KBOS, they actually installed pulsating lights I believe (similar to lights found at hold short lines on taxiways).
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cptspeaking
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:21 pm

One other point about LAHSO operations is that they are prohibited for student pilots for obvious reasons.

As soon as a person receives their Private Pilot Certificate (not a license, it's a CERTIFICATE!!!), then they can accept a LAHSO clearance. However, it is completely voluntary. If you do not feel comfortable landing in the given distance, then don't accept the clearance. ATC can never force you to accept a LAHSO clearance.

Your CptSpeaking
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speedracer1407
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:25 pm

Question about LAHSO:

Both controlers and pilots must be prepared for the unexpected, so what happens if a large get accepts LAHSO, then floats on landing, suffers a severe brake or other mechanical problem that results in either a longer than expected landing rollout or a late goaround that extends the plane's time on the runway beyond the intersection? it this simply an accepted risk or do controllers make sure that no two planes cross eachother's paths at any time even during LAHSO?
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MD11Fanatic
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:29 pm

Thanks everyone for the explanation!
 
bond007
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting CptSpeaking (Reply 12):
not a license, it's a CERTIFICATE!!!

Don't get too hung up on it .... regardless of what it might say on the certificate, the FAA uses both words extensively. Just go to www.faa.gov and do a search on 'pilot's license'. In fact, if you want to change your address, you go to the 'change your license' screen.

The words are used interchangeably.


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KELPkid
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:55 am

And, in case anyone was wondering, it is pronounced "lasso", just like the thing that cowboys catch cows with or bad guys get caught with in cheesy westerns...  Wink
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cptspeaking
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 15):
Don't get too hung up on it .... regardless of what it might say on the certificate, the FAA uses both words extensively. Just go to www.faa.gov and do a search on 'pilot's license'. In fact, if you want to change your address, you go to the 'change your license' screen.

The words are used interchangeably.

 checkmark 

True, thats just a kick of the local DPE here...yes, license can be used as well and everybody knows what you're talking about, but certificate is the correct term. The same guy goes into convulsions when people say map...its a chart!!!!  biggrin 

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lowrider
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:31 am

Quoting Speedracer1407 (Reply 13):
so what happens if a large get accepts LAHSO, then floats on landing, suffers a severe brake or other mechanical problem that results in either a longer than expected landing rollout or a late goaround that extends the plane's time on the runway beyond the intersection? it this simply an accepted risk or do controllers make sure that no two planes cross eachother's paths at any time even during

Best case, some paperwork has to be done. Worst case, roll CFR. Some carriers may permit thier crews to accept LAHSO/SIRO clearences, but as far as I know, the crew always has the option to decline for any reason. Further, the prohibition usually extends to any participation in these operations. So if an aircraft on an intersecting runway accepts a LAHSO clearence, the prohibited aircraft cannot accept a landing clearence until the other aircraft is down and clear. As for GA, don't accept it unless you are certain you can make it, and leave yourself a healthy margin for error.
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Kraw
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:29 am

we implemented lahso recently. It's to increase capacity of the airport without compromising safety (or some other long gov definition Big grin) I can't say I've ever heard it used. It allows ATC to cross aircraft at the departure end of the actives. It's great for moving aircraft under tow or maintenance moves, from the north side to the terminals. There's a hold short marking with in pavement lights (white) and there's also an 858R sign on each side of the runway. For us, the signs have the corresponding taxiway designation on them (we have no intersecting Rwy's)

Twy V will do away with the need for lahso on Rwy 8R. That's still a few weeks away though.
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bond007
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RE: What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:41 am

Yeah, whenever I fly GA and accept a LAHSO clearance, it always seems to add a lot of stress to the landing process - probably at the worst time you need any extra stress. Even on a long runway, the #1 thing on my mind is having to stop at the line ... even if it's 5000' down the runway. Also my concern is what happens if I have to go-around.

I used to do it a lot at PWK, but a few times, especially in less than perfect conditions, I've chosen not to accept it and do an extra pattern or whatever.


Jimbo
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