COA739ER
Topic Author
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:48 pm

A Question For COEx Pilots...

Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:46 am

Ok, here is the info... I was reading the FOM for the EMB-135ER/LR, EMB-145EP/LR, EMB-145XR and as far as the climb schedule it states to use 240kts to 10,000ft, increasing linearly to 270kts from 10,000 to 12,000ft., maintaining 270kts from 12,000 to 17,400ft and .56M above 17,400 (FLC profile)

or:

240kts to 10,000ft increasing linearly to 290kts from 10,000 to 12,000ft, maintaining 290kts from 12,000 to 21,600ft and .65M above 21,600 (alternate profile).

This is for the 135ER/LR and 145EP/LR.

The question is which mode do you guys/gals prefer above 10,000ft? Its been found that climbing between 1100 and 1400fpm above 10,000ft to cruise altitude provides a very comfortable ride for both pax and the flight attendant who has to haul to galley cart up/down the aisle.

Ok, now your thoughts, comments, etc...

Thanks,
Fletcher
IAH
Thank You for flying Continental and we look forward to seeing you again soon.
 
ThePinnacleKid
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:47 am

RE: A Question For COEx Pilots...

Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:56 am

Personally... if I can.. I'll use FLC to 10K, at 10K switch to VS and dial down to 500 fpm to 1000 fpm to accelerate a little quicker.. then just increase VS upwards to around 1500 or so fpm the rest of the way... just depends on how heavy and what I'm getting results wise... some flights its less, some flights its more...

Mexico and of course non-B air... I use IAS 200... usually just leave it that till 10K and then switch to VS and do the same as above...

As far as the FLC profile... the one you mentioned is only for the EMB-135ER/LR, & EMB-145EP/LR's... the 145XR is a different breed...

the FLC profile for the XR is:
240 kts throught 10K
240 kts increasing to 290 kts through 14K
then 290 kts till transitioning to Mach and climbing at M 0.6 the rest of the way up....

The descent profiles of the FLC are the same for all EMB-135/145 aircraft though... no difference in XR when comin' down the hill


btw... all of the profiles are just rough guides.. you gotta do what ya gotta do.... yesterday on a flight out of IAH we were asked to maintain 280 in the climb for spacing.... so, at 10K, VS 500 fpm, let the speed start building up... slowly increased VS to slow the rapid acceleration down... then about 275 kias selected IAS... then slowly dial that up to 280.. and let her go.. she climbed at 280 KIAS up till we were told to "resume normal speed"

granted.. the way I said I do it... isn't anything set in stone at all... it's simply technique and what I tend to use, talk to 5 other pilots, get 5 other answers. = )

[Edited 2007-03-06 23:04:46]
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 3944
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: A Question For COEx Pilots...

Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:00 am

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 1):
out of IAH we were asked to maintain 280 in the climb for spacing.... so, at 10K, VS 500 fpm, let the speed start building up... slowly increased VS to slow the rapid acceleration down... then about 275 kias selected IAS... then slowly dial that up to 280.. and let her go.. she climbed at 280 KIAS up till we were told to "resume normal speed"

Must have been a slow day.......unless the speed of the day was 280 KIAS above 10,000' I'd have asked what the guy behind you was wanting for flight plan speed and then adjusted yours accordingly......maybe 300 KIAS or better, I don't care if you climb just GO!  Smile
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
ThePinnacleKid
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:47 am

RE: A Question For COEx Pilots...

Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:04 pm

Hey IAHFLYR...neither the capt. or myself really cared that we had to do the 280 climb... we we're on the way to Nassau =)

It was odd to be asked that though... I don't know what was going on... it was orig. assigned by departure then first center cont. asked us to maintain the 280... the second center cont. gave us the resume normal... oh well... no big deal.. we we're east bound with a nice tail wind enroute to paradise. It's a tough life.
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
KAUSpilot
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:15 pm

RE: A Question For COEx Pilots...

Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:20 pm

Leaving 10,000 ft, select vertical speed 500 fpm and then maintain:

290 knots until .60 in the XR

290 knots until .65 in all other models

This is company policy at Expressjet. In EWR you should not select 500 fpm or they will chime in and ask you to give them a good rate though. The point is to get to 290 knots as soon as practical.

This will yeild approximately 1500 fpm in temps less than ISA and approximately 1000 fpm in temps greater than ISA. These values will vary +/- 500 fpm, maybe more depending on weights and subfleet type.

The FLC mode is generally NOT used above 10,000 ft. VS mode or IAS mode is typically used in order to adhere to the aforementioned profiles.
 
SansVGs
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:21 pm

RE: A Question For COEx Pilots...

Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:31 pm

Do you not use FLC mode above 10000 because it "porpoises," or some other reason? Thanks.
Winglets on a Falcon are "over-painting" a great work of art.
 
KAUSpilot
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:15 pm

RE: A Question For COEx Pilots...

Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:50 pm

The porpoising is one reason, but the primary reason is that FLC mode holds 270 until .56 in non-XR models, which is too slow to be practical in most situations. You can use FLC in the XR, but it accelerates to 290 rather slowly, taking 4000 ft whereas it can be done in less than 1000 ft using VS 500 fpm.

IAS mode suffers from porpoising just as much as FLC mode in the climb, so neither mode is used much by most pilots unless the air is relatively calm.

Also, in the XR you should not hold .60 mach much beyond FL300 with weights over 48,000 lbs due to the low speed buffet margins.
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 3944
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: A Question For COEx Pilots...

Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:13 pm

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 3):
we we're on the way to Nassau

That is so rude.....and you didn't even ask us to come along!  cheerful  That could cost ya next time ya know! haha
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
ThePinnacleKid
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:47 am

RE: A Question For COEx Pilots...

Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:07 am

Hey KAUSpilot, are you gonna be goin' to the new SAT base or given it any thought?
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
KAUSpilot
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:15 pm

RE: A Question For COEx Pilots...

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:36 am

I've got my perm bid in for SAT, hopefully it doesn't go too senior for me to hold it. You staying in IAH?
 
ThePinnacleKid
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:47 am

RE: A Question For COEx Pilots...

Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:48 am

Yeah.. I'm stayin in IAH... its an easier commute from DFW with both CO and AA doin' that vs.. SAT just AA doin it... (unless I really wanted to drive an extra 40 minutes and commute from DAL.. then I would have WN as an option.. but why do that when I can just keep IAH.. I'm moving up quick in seniority, and I can commute from an airport 20 min from my house...)
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2247
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

RE: A Question For COEx Pilots...

Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:54 pm

Out of curiosity, does ExpressJet have any restrictions on use of VS mode in climbs? My airline prohibits VS mode during climbs unless the aircraft is being hand flown.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
KAUSpilot
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:15 pm

RE: A Question For COEx Pilots...

Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:12 am

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):
Out of curiosity, does ExpressJet have any restrictions on use of VS mode in climbs? My airline prohibits VS mode during climbs unless the aircraft is being hand flown.

Nope, no restrections. It is the most commonly used mode for climbs and descents. The reason: it is much smoother than IAS and FLC. IAS and FLC pitch abruptly and somewhat erraticly to maintain speed, especially in bumpy air. There is no low speed protection in VS mode so obviously you have to pay attention, but thanks to the effecient design of the wing on the ERJ, you can get pretty slow at most weights before you have to worry about the low speed buffet (unlike the CRJ). Pitch mode is used in the climbout by some pilots too.
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2247
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

RE: A Question For COEx Pilots...

Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:22 am

Thanks KAUSpilot. On the Dash-8 we almost always use pitch mode for climbs and VS for descent. We avoid IAS for the same reason you mentioned above.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
modesto2
Posts: 2681
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 3:44 am

RE: A Question For COEx Pilots...

Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:41 pm

I use 1000fpm past 10,000 feet until I accelerate close to 290KIAS and then increase the rate of climb to 1,500-2,000fpm to maintain 290KIAS until M0.60 or M0.65 depending on the aircraft.

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