CupraIbiza
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Landing Approach Speeds

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:58 am

Can someone help me with finding a list of aircraft landing approach speeds?

I watch varied size planes landing. Smaller propeller planes seem to be approaching at a very very faster rate that large jets.

IS it an optical illusion? That is do they seem to be going faster because they are smaller? Or are they indeed going a lot faster??
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BigJimFX
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RE: Landing Approach Speeds

Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:22 pm

Sometimes ATC asks prop planes to make their best approach speed (fastest) when there is traffic behind them that has to go faster. (Like a 737 doing about 130-140 kts) Such a request was given to me while landing at ATL in a 172 while a A319 was behind me. Also one could say that they look faster because they have a nose low attitude because they lack leading edge slats. In reality they are normally going slower than jets but just look faster. I hope this helps. Hopefully some of our regional jet/prop pilots can shed some more light on the matter.
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2H4
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RE: Landing Approach Speeds

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:18 pm



It is indeed an optical illusion. It's based on how long it takes an aircraft to travel it's own length.


2H4


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3DPlanes
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RE: Landing Approach Speeds

Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:01 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 2):
It is indeed an optical illusion. It's based on how long it takes an aircraft to travel it's own length.

I think it also has to do with our mind's built in assumption of size. When you see an airliner at a distance, your mind says "its a 737" and so you automatically guestimate the distance based on how big the plane -should- look given that it -is- a 737. But what if it was a 777?

For a 777 to -appear- as large as a 737, it must be quite a bit further away. Even if the 777 was flying at higher speed, the greater distance results in less apparent motion - so it looks like its flying a lot slower.
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411A
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RE: Landing Approach Speeds

Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:10 pm

Lockheed L1011, at maximum landing weight (368,000 pounds), Vref 144.

Same aircraft, but modified with a heavier landing weight (applicable only to SaudiArabian aircraft, 380,000 pounds), Vref 148.

Standard body L1011, max landing weight, no flaps/no slats, Vref 194.
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Landing Approach Speeds

Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:37 pm

Usually, but not always, an aircraft in the heavy category will land faster on average than a smaller aircraft (ie 747 vs 737) at MLW, but the difference is small, usually within 10 kts. But its hard to tell the difference of 10kts and given the size of some aircraft their apparent speed is greatly reduced.

DISCLAIMER: I just based this on performance charts I've seen and is by no means a generalization or a hard rule.  duck 
 
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zeke
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RE: Landing Approach Speeds

Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:25 pm


  • RJ70-119 kt
  • RJ85-124 kt
  • F70-126 kt
  • DC 9-10-127 kt
  • RJ100-127 kt
  • RJ115-127 kt
  • 717-200-130 kt
  • 737-500-130 kt
  • A319-100-131 kt
  • 737-200-131 kt
  • 737-300-133 kt
  • A320-200-134 kt
  • A340-200-134 kt
  • A330-200-135 kt
  • 707-320C-135 kt
  • A300-600R-136 kt
  • A330-300-136 kt
  • A340-300-136 kt
  • F100-136 kt
  • 727-200Adv-137 kt
  • DC 9-30-137 kt
  • A310-300-138 kt
  • A321-200-138 kt
  • A380-800-138 kt
  • 737-400-138 kt
  • 777-200-138 kt
  • Tu-154M-138 kt
  • A340-500-139 kt
  • 777-200ER-140 kt
  • MD-87-141 kt
  • 767-200-142 kt
  • A340-600-144 kt
  • Il-62M/MK-145 kt
  • MD-81-148 kt
  • 757-200-150 kt
  • DC 9-40-151 kt
  • Tu-204-200-151 kt
  • MD-82-153 kt
  • MD-83-153 kt
  • DC10-10-157 kt
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OldAeroGuy
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RE: Landing Approach Speeds

Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:40 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 6):
757-200-150 kt

This is at least 15 kts too high for the 752. Where did you get the data?
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
lehpron
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RE: Landing Approach Speeds

Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 6):

While she's not flying, you forgot to include Concorde at 217 kt
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IAHFLYR
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RE: Landing Approach Speeds

Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:41 pm

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 7):
This is at least 15 kts too high for the 752. Where did you get the data?

I also think your speeds for the MD80 series, and DC9's are around 15 kts to high, other than the DC9-10/15 versions which look pretty good.

[Edited 2007-04-06 15:42:35]
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zeke
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RE: Landing Approach Speeds

Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 7):
Where did you get the data?

"Civil Jet Aircraft Design" , ISBN: 978-0-340-74152-8.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
highflyer9790
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RE: Landing Approach Speeds

Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:32 am

747 dpending on wieght has a final approach speed of 148-152kts....
121
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Landing Approach Speeds

Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:15 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 10):
Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 7):
Where did you get the data?

"Civil Jet Aircraft Design" , ISBN: 978-0-340-74152-8.

Here are two more turned up by a quick web search:

http://www.757.org.uk/spec/spec4.html

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/startup/pdf/historical/757f_perf.pdf

Note that they are consistent. At an MLW of 92.25t, Vref is 137 kt. (You need to subtract the 5 kt speed additive from the speeds given for the org.uk reference

At the more normal passenger MLW of 89.8t for the 752, Vref would reduce to 135 kt, hence my comment that 150 kt is 15 kt too high.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis

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