AirNZ
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Block Time Question

Sun May 13, 2007 10:11 pm

Can anyone tell me what exactly Block Time is please? I've seen it mentioned here a bit and am certainly interested to know what it is.
Many thanks for any help.
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OPNLguy
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RE: Block Time Question

Sun May 13, 2007 10:36 pm

Quoting AirNZ (Thread starter):
Can anyone tell me what exactly Block Time is please?

Follow this sequence...

(A) The flight pushes back from the gate (and leaves the wheel chocks/blocks) and taxies to the runway.

(B) The flight starts takeoff and gets airborne.

(C) The flight touches down on landing.

(D) The flight taxies off the runway to into the gate, slows, stops, and the chocks/blocks are put back.

B-C is flight time...

A-D is block time, the total time from one set of chocks/blocks tothe other...
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mayhem
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RE: Block Time Question

Mon May 14, 2007 4:42 am

If WN and other LCC talk about a '15-min turnaround' (or any very quick turnaround), is that then the time from D to A or from C to B?

Thanks
 
A330Fan
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RE: Block Time Question

Mon May 14, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting Mayhem (Reply 2):

Yeah turnaround time is as you put it, D - A, arriving at the gate, engines off, passengers and baggage off and reloading/refueling until the aircraft is pushed back again...
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WestWing
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RE: Block Time Question

Mon May 14, 2007 5:37 am

The "15-min turnaround" would be D to A.

For ACARS the ABCD is termed OOOI (Out of the gate, Off the ground, On the ground, In the gate)
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LawnDart
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RE: Block Time Question

Tue May 15, 2007 1:43 am

Quoting AirNZ (Thread starter):
Can anyone tell me what exactly Block Time is please?

Mind if I get a little boring...uh, more detailed?

Yes, block time is from block out at point A to block in at point B.

But why do two different airlines flying from point A to point B have different block times? How does Southwest do it with those 20 minutes (more like 25-35) turn arounds?

When an airline schedules their flights, they use historical block times (if an added flight on a previously-flown route) or they calculate expected block time. The airline decides what kind of on-time performance they want (a balance of competitive factors, time-of-day constraints, connecting possibilities, etc..).

They decide if they want the flight to be 55% on time (meaning it will operate the segment within the allotted block time or less at least 55% of the time), or 60% on time, or 65%...so on.

If the flight is one that connects at a hub, they may use 70% block time. If the flight is one they would like to connect at a hub, but would definitely be "last in", they may use 50% block time - that way it will show as a connection and sell in reservations systems, and most of the time people will, in fact, be able to connect.

Southwest is primarily point-to-point. Although they do connect a lot of passengers, many of their segments are not connecting to anything else. Plus, they have short turn-arounds. So they have to have a pretty good on-time performance or their operation falls apart. So they (probably, I don't know for sure) schedule at a higher percentage block time - say 70%? 70% of their flights operated to scheduled block or less...meaning the turnaround time just had a couple of minutes here and there thrown in.

Why don't airlines all schedule to 100% block time? $$$. Look at how (mostly) pilots are paid...scheduled block time or actual, whichever is greater. So if your 100% block time means 100% of your flights operate to schedule or less, you're paying too much.

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KELPkid
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RE: Block Time Question

Tue May 15, 2007 2:54 am

Not sure which context the OP was meaning this in,

but over in GA land, it can also mean, for example, 50 hours in a Piper Seminole pre-purchased at an agreed upon price  Smile

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HAWK21M
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RE: Block Time Question

Tue May 15, 2007 3:13 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 1):
The flight pushes back from the gate (and leaves the wheel chocks/blocks) and taxies to the runway.

Block time:- Time taken from the time Aircraft is chocked off before taxying on its own power for purpose of flight to chocks on at the end of the flight.

Chocks off prior to Pushback on some Aircraft that cannot start engines during pushback.Need the chocks to be placed again during Engine start.Those chocks are withdrawn only after starting Engines & taxying on its own power.


regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
mayhem
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RE: Block Time Question

Tue May 15, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 5):
Mind if I get a little more detailed?

(excuse me for being European and not knowing about WN's operations  Smile)

So most of WN's turnaround times are actually more than the infamous 15-20minutes?
 
JRadier
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RE: Block Time Question

Tue May 15, 2007 6:20 am

Quoting Mayhem (Reply 8):

So most of WN's turnaround times are actually more than the infamous 15-20minutes?

Depends on the service level (ie percentage of flights that arrives within the blocktime), if that is higher then 50%, then yes, the average possible turnaround time is longer then that.
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3201
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RE: Block Time Question

Tue May 15, 2007 7:41 am

Quoting Mayhem (Reply 8):
So most of WN's turnaround times are actually more than the infamous 15-20minutes?

The scheduled times vary by airport, and probably time of day (can someone confirm?). You can get a good idea by looking through their online timetable at intermediate legs on the same flight.

The actual times are, like for any airline, not always within the scheduled times, but sometimes faster, especially when inbound is late.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Block Time Question

Tue May 15, 2007 3:36 pm

Block time & Time in Air is a difference of 10 mins on average.

regds
MEL

[Edited 2007-05-15 08:39:27]
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LawnDart
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RE: Block Time Question

Wed May 16, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):
Block time & Time in Air is a difference of 10 mins on average.

Huh? Where? For which airline?

Not at JFK...or LGA...or ATL...or EWR...or ORD...or LAX...or LHR...on and on and on...maybe ABE!
 
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jetmech
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RE: Block Time Question

Wed May 16, 2007 7:41 am

With my current employer, blocks off time is linked to the release of the parking brake via ACARS. One of the tricks to ensure an "on time" departure is to kick off the brakes at the scheduled departure time. Despite this, the aircraft may well be sitting on the bay for another 5-10 minutes  Wink !

Regards, JetMech
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HAWK21M
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RE: Block Time Question

Wed May 16, 2007 12:40 pm

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 12):
Huh? Where? For which airline

Out here its official to calculate the Block time as Time in Air + 10 minutes if the data is not present for record purposes.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
mayhem
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RE: Block Time Question

Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:08 pm

What is the correct name actually for the "not-block time"? is it "turn-around time"?
(The time between chocks placed and removed, the D-A time as mentioned above)
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Block Time Question

Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting Mayhem (Reply 15):
What is the correct name actually for the "not-block time"? is it "turn-around time"?
(The time between chocks placed and removed, the D-A time as mentioned above)

Block time:- Chocks on to chocks off.
Time in Air:- Take off to Touch Down.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
mayhem
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RE: Block Time Question

Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:48 am

Oh, but i found that block time =
"The period from the moment the chocks are withdrawn and brakes released, or moorings dropped, to the return to rest or take-up of moorings after the flight." So it's Time in Air + taxi? Or is this definition incorrect?

Thanks for the info!
 
fr8mech
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RE: Block Time Question

Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):
Need the chocks to be placed again during Engine start

That's a local procedure. We push and start engines all the time without chocks in place.

ACARS, at my operator, registers block out when:
All doors are closed
Any engine oil pressure valid (some aircraft)
Brakes released
Aircraft moving as sensed through the INS/IRS.

Block off: when the aircraft systems transition to air mode
Block on: when the aircraft systems transition to ground mode

Block in:
Aircraft on ground
Any door opened

We define total block time from block out to block in.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Block Time Question

Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 18):
We push and start engines all the time without chocks in place.

With a Mx personnell at the Headset on Flt Interphone.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Ralgha
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RE: Block Time Question

Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:36 am

Quoting Mayhem (Reply 15):
What is the correct name actually for the "not-block time"? is it "turn-around time"?

"turn time".

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
but over in GA land, it can also mean, for example, 50 hours in a Piper Seminole pre-purchased at an agreed upon price

That would be "a block of time".
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fr8mech
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RE: Block Time Question

Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 19):
With a Mx personnell at the Headset on Flt Interphone.

Yes. Once the aircraft is pushed back, the chocks only go back in for some extraordinary reason.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Block Time Question

Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:17 pm

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 21):
Yes. Once the aircraft is pushed back, the chocks only go back in for some extraordinary reason

Out here that a Safety violation.
Any time a Mx personnell is present near the Aircraft.Chocks near the Nose wheels is a must,in case the brakes are released.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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