Boston92
Topic Author
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Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Fri May 18, 2007 6:38 am

while still actually being in the air? AKA 300 AS with a 301 headwind.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
cptspeaking
Posts: 567
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RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Fri May 18, 2007 6:46 am

Absolutely! If the groundspeed were to be zero, you would have to be directly into the wind and have your airspeed equal to the wind velocity. I've had 152s going backwards over the ground on several occasions because the wind was faster than we were flying...very strange feeling! This would be the case with your example..you would be going 1 knot in the opposite direction.

Leads to an interesting story...when I was getting my instrument rating, we had a day where there were 60 kt winds at 3000 feet. The lesson that day was holding. So, we decided to try to get a response from Approach Control, and on the outbound leg, we go tour groundspeed down to 15 kts (in IMC, so we didn't really want to push it further, plus, the point was to actually get outbound, not hover  Smile ), kept this for several minutes, then coming inbound we firewalled the throttle and got up to 172kts groundspeed. We were at the fix in right about a minute, but our outbound was sooooooo long!

Your CptSpeaking
...and don't call me Shirley!!
 
pilotaydin
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RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Fri May 18, 2007 6:52 am

dude, you can fly backwards, i love doing it, pop flaps 40 on the a 172 and find a mega headwind in slow flight, fun as hell  Smile great for showing students ICET - indicated, calibrated, Equiv and true as well as ground speed
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Fri May 18, 2007 7:04 am

Many times it is quicker to take Greyhound as they would be going faster than the 30 kts, or less you see on the ground speed!  Smile
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
2H4
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RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Fri May 18, 2007 7:28 am




Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 3):
Many times it is quicker to take Greyhound as they would be going faster than the 30 kts, or less you see on the ground speed!

Indeed. I flew a 150 from Mississippi to Michigan into headwinds for most of the trip, and watched interstate traffic pass me for hours and hours.

I've also raced Dodge Vipers around Chrysler's test track near Chelsea, Michigan, and lost miserably.  Smile


2H4


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WrenchBender
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RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Fri May 18, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
Indeed. I flew a 150 from Mississippi to Michigan into headwinds for most of the trip, and watched interstate traffic pass me for hours and hours.

I've seen that in a Twin Otter, YWG to YOD had to stop for gas in YXE because of the head winds.

WrenchBender
Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Fri May 18, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
I've also raced Dodge Vipers around Chrysler's test track near Chelsea, Michigan, and lost miserably.

 laughing 

I haven't tried that yet but if I ever find a day when some testing/racing is going on at the College Station Speedway, if ever again, (  Sad ) I'm gonna try that.....only I hope it is a hybrid so I might have a change of winning.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
N231YE
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Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:24 am

RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Fri May 18, 2007 9:26 am

Its fun...though passengers don't seem to like the idea of "flying backwards." As a matter of fact, I have talked to ATC'ers who say when they see our target flying backwards, they start to worry.

I have been told by ATC before that when a rinkey-dink C172(R) is on final at 65KIAS, and there is an F-16 on an extended final at like, 400kts, it seems as if the C172 is flying backwards.
 
futurecaptain
Posts: 1918
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RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Fri May 18, 2007 9:58 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
I flew a 150 from Mississippi to Michigan into headwinds for most of the trip, and watched interstate traffic pass me for hours and hours.

Times like these you need to take a twin for your trip.
AirSO. ASpaceO. ASOnline. ASO.com ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO.
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
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RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Fri May 18, 2007 10:30 am




Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 6):
I haven't tried that yet but if I ever find a day when some testing/racing is going on at the College Station Speedway

The nice thing about doing it at College Station Speedway is you won't have to worry about a team of laywers accusing you of flying low in an attempt to spy and gather intelligence.

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 8):
Times like these you need to take a twin for your trip.

Yeah, but all that 150 time was free.  Wink


2H4


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IAHFLYR
Posts: 3944
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RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Fri May 18, 2007 11:38 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 9):
Yeah, but all that 150 time was free.

As will be my time in any craft.......I'll sneak away with it!  cool 
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
ZBBYLW
Posts: 1612
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:17 am

RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Fri May 18, 2007 11:55 am

Quoting CptSpeaking (Reply 1):
I've had 152s going backwards over the ground on several occasions because the wind was faster than we were flying...very strange feeling!

HAHA yea I have done it as well 10 kts backwards actually! Also kept it at Zero for a while... REALLY WEIRD.. the coolest thing though was 15 kts GS while landing now that was cool! Ahhh you gotta love GPS

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
've also raced Dodge Vipers around Chrysler's test track near Chelsea, Michigan, and lost miserably.

I have also raced some cars just outside of YLW there is a drag strip and some cars where screwing around there (looked like they broke in, its in the middle of nowhere) and I just did low and overs over them and they tried to race me... I was in a 152 and well... anyways it was fun...
Keep the shinny side up!
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Fri May 18, 2007 2:00 pm

I'm reminded of this photo:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Steve Carlson

I lift things up and put them down.
 
Pope
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RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Sat May 19, 2007 2:48 am

I never flew backwards in a Cessna but once cars in a school zone were passing me as I was on short final for Rwy 06 at KGNV. That's when I knew I was done with my touch and goes for the day.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Jerald01
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:35 pm

RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Sat May 19, 2007 3:08 am

I know of a flight instructor who used to win bets with his students by telling them he could take off, fly a complete traffic pattern and then land the airplane... all without ever changing his heading.

All it takes is a very, very slow airplane, a windy day, and some judicious use of rudder and power.
"There may be old pilots, and there may be bold pilots, but there are darn few green cows"
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Sat May 19, 2007 3:56 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
Indeed. I flew a 150 from Mississippi to Michigan into headwinds for most of the trip, and watched interstate traffic pass me for hours and hours.

LOL, that must be an amazing feeling.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
N215AZ
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RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Sat May 19, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 7):
Its fun...though passengers don't seem to like the idea of "flying backwards." As a matter of fact, I have talked to ATC'ers who say when they see our target flying backwards, they start to worry.

Yeah, My parents do not like me talking about the negative GS indicated on the GPS, but I love it! Watching the fields and roads and houses come from behind. Kinda weird at first, but lots of fun otherwise.

Quoting N231YE (Reply 7):
I have been told by ATC before that when a rinkey-dink C172(R) is on final at 65KIAS, and there is an F-16 on an extended final at like, 400kts, it seems as if the C172 is flying backwards.

I feel like I have heard that before, from the same controller too



P.S. N231YE, how's life treating you lately?
"Atra esterní ono thelduin, Mor'ranr lífa unin hjarta onr, Un du evarínya ono varda."
 
2H4
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RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Sat May 19, 2007 7:16 am




Quoting Jerald01 (Reply 14):
All it takes is a very, very slow airplane, a windy day, and some judicious use of rudder and power.

....and, if the field is towered, a very understanding controller.  Wink




Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 15):
LOL, that must be an amazing feeling.

At the time, it was maddening....I just wanted to get home!

Some more interesting uses of slow/zero groundspeeds over the years have been:

- Hanging in place while watching fourth of July fireworks (from a safe distance)
- Viewing Christmas light displays without paying for the entry fee
- Checking out my house, waving to my family, and seeing my dog's tail wag from 1000-1500 feet up


2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
FlyingColours
Posts: 2202
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RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Sat May 19, 2007 7:27 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 17):
Viewing Christmas light displays without paying for the entry fee

Does that work with Drive-In's too?

Phil
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Sat May 19, 2007 7:56 am




Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 18):
Does that work with Drive-In's too?

It does, actually. KOEB (Coldwater, MI) has a drive-in immediately adjacent to the airport. In fact, if you choose to divert your attention from the approach and landing, you can watch the movie during final:

http://i9.tinypic.com/4ubm0ww.jpg


You can see the big parking lot under the word "Batavia", and the movie screen just above and to the right.

The best part? The audio is broadcast on an AM frequency, so you can put the ADF to use and tune in.

Not that I've done this, of course. I've just heard about it.


2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 3944
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Sat May 19, 2007 8:07 am

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 18):
Does that work with Drive-In's too?

I want to have a ZERO groundspeed to go through the IN-N-OUT drive-in at near LAX just off the 24 complex....awesome spotting from a C150 getting a burger!  Smile
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
N231YE
Posts: 2620
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:24 am

RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Sat May 19, 2007 8:52 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 19):

Well, as long as a pilot and his girlfriend aren't up for a Friday night viewing...things getting steamy and airplanes...don't mix too well  drunk 

Similar Incident!
 
N215AZ
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:12 pm

RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Sat May 19, 2007 9:33 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 21):

I seem to remember hearing the one before to, where do you get your material N231YE?

N215AZ
"Atra esterní ono thelduin, Mor'ranr lífa unin hjarta onr, Un du evarínya ono varda."
 
N231YE
Posts: 2620
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:24 am

RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Sat May 19, 2007 11:03 am

Quoting N215AZ (Reply 22):

Often the same person or N215AZ himself!

-----------------On a side note, not to hijack the thread------------------------------

N215AZ

Reid and Ben Stiller must be like long lost brothers, take note at the similarities the next time you see Reid and see a film starring Ben Stiller.
 
N215AZ
Posts: 76
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RE: Can You Have A "Zero" Groundspeed...?

Sat May 19, 2007 11:53 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 23):
-----------------On a side note, not to hijack the thread------------------------------

Same here, but yes, I do see that now that you mention it.

WOW!

N215AZ
"Atra esterní ono thelduin, Mor'ranr lífa unin hjarta onr, Un du evarínya ono varda."

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