GoingAround
Topic Author
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 11:28 pm

Accidents On First Flight?

Fri May 25, 2007 11:41 pm

Heya,

This is my first post here, but I've been visiting the site for a few years now, only just ponied up the cash and joined!  Big grin

I have wondered this for a few years;

Has there ever been a case where a pilot on their first commercial flight has had a serious emergency? Are there any famous incidents?

One of my Dad's friends who flies A320's for BA told me that he had an engine failure while in his first month of work at BA. He made it sound pretty scary for somebody with relatively little experience.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Alex
 
redflyer
Posts: 3881
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Sun May 27, 2007 4:59 am

If memory serves me correct, the 737 US Air flight that went off the end of the runway and into the water at LGA back in 1989 was being flown by the first officer. I seem to remember that he had only about 20 hours in type and it was his very first flight where he was actually the flying pilot. His famous last words (he survived the crash as did all but 2 passengers) just before take-off power was applied was "Here goes nothing", or something to that affect, which showed his lack of confidence. I don't remember the other specifics of the crash, other than the rudder was incorrectly positioned during take-off causing the plane to yaw and the captain took over control too late to effectively and safely abort the take-off run.

I don't know if the above incident falls into the category you're looking for, but it sure comes close! And I'm sure there's plenty of other examples out there.
My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2820
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Sun May 27, 2007 7:18 am

The sim isn't the same as the airplane, but prior to starting IOE you have hours of doing nothing but emergency situations in the sim.
DMI
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Sun May 27, 2007 1:22 pm

I bet you'll find more of these incidents to occur in the GA sector rather than the commercial sector.

I've heard plenty of solo first flights going bad.
 
GoingAround
Topic Author
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 11:28 pm

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Sun May 27, 2007 6:37 pm

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 1):

I suppose I just think that it's interesting that actually there are not very many accidents that you hear of that involve very in-experienced pilots. But thank-you for that, it was the kind of incident I was wondering about, does anyone know what happened to the F/O and his flying career after the incident?

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 2):

That's what my Dad's friend said, that it's a frightening experience but training just kicks in after a while. He also said that it didn't really hit him until he was on the ground again, but I don't think that is really something I would want to experience during my first month of work as a pilot  Yeah sure

Thanks for the answers,

Alex
 
airtran737
Posts: 3217
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Sun May 27, 2007 8:37 pm

Quoting GoingAround (Thread starter):
Has there ever been a case where a pilot on their first commercial flight has had a serious emergency? Are there any famous incidents?

AirTran/ValuJet had on in ATL a long time ago, it was the F/O's first flight of IOE and they had smoke in the cockpit. It's quite a harrowing tale to hear in person. When the F/O was debriefed by the NTSB they asked him how much time he had in the DC-9 he replied "about 9 minutes" they thought that he was joking.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Sun May 27, 2007 9:38 pm

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 2):
The sim isn't the same as the airplane

well yes and no, the sim is pretty accurate if you get your mindset right, a lot of people feel "safe" in the sim, but if you go in knowing and thinking it's the real plane and you CAN NOT crash, it makes it way too real...

it basically is the same thing otherwise you wouldn't be able to fly with real passengers after a type rating...
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Sun May 27, 2007 10:49 pm

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 6):
well yes and no, the sim is pretty accurate if you get your mindset right, a lot of people feel "safe" in the sim, but if you go in knowing and thinking it's the real plane and you CAN NOT crash, it makes it way too real...

Yep, I have had more than a few times where I've come out of the sim nervously shaken. I had recently where I was doing a perfectly normal takeoff on a nice day in there... As I'm accelerating through about 110kts, a 767 crosses the runway right in front of me. Slammed right into it. Had to spend a few moments relaxing before I could continue after that one.

The sim is definitely very real, but it doesn't feel like the exact airplane after you've flown the real thing. The sim doesn't have the erractic turbulence on approach, the sim doesn't have ATC issues, the sim actually weighs and is balanced as its set up to be (in real life, everything is an estimate), etc. But it is a amazingly good training tool.

Honestly, for your first flight in the plane after the sim... you know how to handle emergencies like the back of your hand. Probably better than you will at any other time until you get back in the sim again. Its the day to day stuff that'll get you.... CRM stuff, passenger issues, dealing with weather and dispatch and such, etc. Thats the hard part.
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17049
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Mon May 28, 2007 2:49 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 1):
His famous last words (he survived the crash as did all but 2 passengers) just before take-off power was applied was "Here goes nothing", or something to that affect, which showed his lack of confidence

Well, even Han Solo said that. But I do agree.  Wink

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 1):
I don't remember the other specifics of the crash, other than the rudder was incorrectly positioned during take-off causing the plane to yaw and the captain took over control too late to effectively and safely abort the take-off run.

They made a number of errors, including positioning themselves behind another taxiing aircraft to get some hot air blown over the wings. This procedure is apparently specifically verboten.

Quoting GoingAround (Reply 4):
I suppose I just think that it's interesting that actually there are not very many accidents that you hear of that involve very in-experienced pilots.

I would think on the first flight you bring your best game. It's when you start relaxing that accidents happen. Then again, first flights may be a bit nerve wracking, meaning if you do overlook something, it's probably going to be major.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
 
BAE146QT
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:58 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Mon May 28, 2007 7:20 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 8):
Then again, first flights may be a bit nerve wracking,

Indeed. Not so very long ago, a friend of mine lost the engine on climb-out... on his first solo. It just seized.
Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
 
GoingAround
Topic Author
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 11:28 pm

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Mon May 28, 2007 7:52 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 8):

I would think on the first flight you bring your best game. It's when you start relaxing that accidents happen. Then again, first flights may be a bit nerve wracking, meaning if you do overlook something, it's probably going to be major.

I have always been curious at which point in a pilots career they could be considered the 'safest'. Is it near the beginning when they rely largely on procedure and training, or when experience starts to kick in?

I know this sounds naive, but from the episodes of Air Crash Investigation I have watched, many of the pilots responsible for the crashes are highly experienced, many of whom are training captains etc. (The 2 main ones I can remember, the PanAm KLM crash in Tenerife, and if my memory serves me correctly, the 757 crash in Cali, Columbia)

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 9):
Indeed. Not so very long ago, a friend of mine lost the engine on climb-out... on his first solo. It just seized.

This is a good example of what I mean, would a student Pilot be better in a situation such as this, or a pilot who has been flying for 20 years?

Thanks,

Alex
 
Ryanair737
Posts: 1364
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:14 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Mon May 28, 2007 8:09 pm

Quoting GoingAround (Reply 10):
This is a good example of what I mean, would a student Pilot be better in a situation such as this, or a pilot who has been flying for 20 years?

It depends, just because you may have been flying for 20 years or 50 years, it does not mean that you’re anymore of a better pilot (flying wise) as someone who may have only been flying for 1 or 2 years. Experience is a fantastic thing, and of course that has an advantage but experience doesn't always equal a great pilot who can handle any given situation.

737
LAST FLIGHTS= Ryanair LPL-BGY-LPL - EI-DPS/DWV - MAY 08 // NEXT FLIGHTS= TBC
 
redflyer
Posts: 3881
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Tue May 29, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 8):
I don't remember the other specifics of the crash, other than the rudder was incorrectly positioned during take-off causing the plane to yaw and the captain took over control too late to effectively and safely abort the take-off run.

They made a number of errors, including positioning themselves behind another taxiing aircraft to get some hot air blown over the wings. This procedure is apparently specifically verboten.

I finally found the NTSB report on this crash. Makes for some very interesting -- and shocking -- reading.

http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR90-03.pdf

Quoting GoingAround (Reply 4):
But thank-you for that, it was the kind of incident I was wondering about, does anyone know what happened to the F/O and his flying career after the incident?

Don't know about the F/O, but from reading this report, I can almost guarantee the pilot never got paid again for flying.
My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 898
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Wed May 30, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 7):
The sim is definitely very real, but it doesn't feel like the exact airplane after you've flown the real thing. The sim doesn't have the erractic turbulence on approach, the sim doesn't have ATC issues, the sim actually weighs and is balanced as its set up to be (in real life, everything is an estimate), etc. But it is a amazingly good training tool.

Honestly, for your first flight in the plane after the sim... you know how to handle emergencies like the back of your hand. Probably better than you will at any other time until you get back in the sim again. Its the day to day stuff that'll get you.... CRM stuff, passenger issues, dealing with weather and dispatch and such, etc. Thats the hard part.

Further commentary on the role that experience plays (thus relevant to this thread) can be found in.. er, this other thread (in case you haven't found it):
When Only The Captain Can Land (by Treeny May 29 2007 in Tech Ops)

I for one believe that experience is very important, and that simulator training just can't replace real experience. Especially in a difficult or dangerous situation, requiring a delicate touch, good intuition and / or the ability to make split second decision......*


YYZYYT

*For example, look what happened to these guys:

"Ripley: How many drops is this for you, Lieutenant?
Gorman: Thirty eight... simulated.
Vasquez: How many *combat* drops?
Gorman: Uh, two. Including this one.
Drake: Shit.
Hudson: Oh, man... "
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17049
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Wed May 30, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 13):

"Ripley: How many drops is this for you, Lieutenant?
Gorman: Thirty eight... simulated.
Vasquez: How many *combat* drops?
Gorman: Uh, two. Including this one.
Drake: Shit.
Hudson: Oh, man... "

Hehe. While it made for a good plot point, I find it hard to believe that such an incompetent squad of marines would ever be fielded. Gorman is not the only weak spot. But maybe I'm optimistic.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 898
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Wed May 30, 2007 11:45 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 14):
Hehe. While it made for a good plot point, I find it hard to believe that such an incompetent squad of marines would ever be fielded. Gorman is not the only weak spot. But maybe I'm optimistic.

I almost added to my prior post, "this is for Stalionblue"
 
BAE146QT
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:58 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Wed May 30, 2007 11:50 pm

I don't think they were incompetent. I believe that they were seasoned professionals who, in that instance, were lacking in confident leadership. In turn, that naive leader was hamstrung by the Company's own agenda and demands - both of which were incompatible with the squad's success in their objectives - not to mention their survival.

And, as WAAAY off-topic as this may be, I believe that to be a problem inherent in so many areas. Perhaps there are those here that can think of aviation examples.

***COUGH*** BSAA ***COUGH***
Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17049
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Thu May 31, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 16):
I don't think they were incompetent. I believe that they were seasoned professionals who, in that instance, were lacking in confident leadership. In turn, that naive leader was hamstrung by the Company's own agenda and demands - both of which were incompatible with the squad's success in their objectives - not to mention their survival.

I'll concede that. But maybe it's their lack of discipline that I found disturbing. This is not really in keeping with Marines. I would think SEALs or SAS squads on detached duty could be more like that. However, SEALs or SAS would not accept such leadership. There is no way Gorman would have been appointed, unless as you say the Company is calling the shots.

Waaaaay over analyzing.

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 16):

And, as WAAAY off-topic as this may be, I believe that to be a problem inherent in so many areas. Perhaps there are those here that can think of aviation examples.

Like the myriad maintenance issues created by management that has no understanding of maintenance, but a perfect understanding of spreadsheets and counting beans?  Wink

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 15):
I almost added to my prior post, "this is for Stalionblue"

I would say "get a life" if I had one myself. Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
 
kbfispotter
Posts: 658
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 5:56 pm

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Thu May 31, 2007 2:22 am

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 9):
a friend of mine lost the engine on climb-out... on his first solo. It just seized

While not on my first flight, I lost my engine on my long distance solo x-country flight. I was on my return leg and had just finished climbing to 6000 ft when the engine just died.... Made an acceptable dead stick landing into Ockechobee Fl.

Kris
Proud to be an A&P!!!
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1978
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Thu May 31, 2007 7:31 am

Quoting GoingAround (Thread starter):
Has there ever been a case where a pilot on their first commercial flight has had a serious emergency? Are there any famous incidents?

While not the first flight, the British Midland 734 crash in 1989 was the result of the crew having very little experience on the type. At the time, the pilots were not required to through training to fly the new 734 if they had already flown older, previous models. As a result, they misinterpreted the glass cockpit displays following the engine failure and shut off the wrong engine.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
BAE146QT
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:58 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Thu May 31, 2007 4:41 pm

Quoting Starlionblue:
Waaaaay over analyzing.

Indeed. We have definitely reached the point where Mrs. BAe146QT would say, "It's only a film".

Quoting KBFIspotter:
Made an acceptable dead stick landing into Ockechobee Fl.

Not the lake, I hope?

Quoting TrijetsRMissed:
As a result, they misinterpreted the glass cockpit displays following the engine failure and shut off the wrong engine.

Unless I am remembering this incorrectly, part of the problem was that they were very familiar with the 732. They detected smoke in the cockpit AC, and since that was fed from the opposite engine on the 732 to the 734, it reinforced their belief that the wrong engine was failing.

Design of the displays was a factor, as much as familiarity. I don't remember who it was, but someone here complained about them recently.
Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
 
GoingAround
Topic Author
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 11:28 pm

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Thu May 31, 2007 7:35 pm

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 20):
Unless I am remembering this incorrectly, part of the problem was that they were very familiar with the 732. They detected smoke in the cockpit AC, and since that was fed from the opposite engine on the 732 to the 734, it reinforced their belief that the wrong engine was failing.

Was it not that on the 732 the A/C was fed from the left engine, however on the 734, it was fed from both? And as there was smoke coming through the A/C into the cabin they determined that it must be the left.

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 20):

Design of the displays was a factor, as much as familiarity. I don't remember who it was, but someone here complained about them recently.

Was it not the size of the vibration gauge? I remember hearing that it was the size of a 20p piece, and was not installed in the 732, and so the crew did not use it.

I didn't think of that example, thanks  Smile

Is it true that a passenger heard the announcement about them shutting off the left engine, and told the stewardess that the flames were coming from the right, she told him not to worry and that the crew knew what they were doing?!

All the best,
Alex
 
BAE146QT
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:58 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Thu May 31, 2007 8:21 pm

Quoting GoingAround:
Was it not that on the 732 the A/C was fed from the left engine, however on the 734, it was fed from both? And as there was smoke coming through the A/C into the cabin they determined that it must be the left.

My memory is all rusty - I recalled that it was fed from from the left on the 732 (as you say) but from the right on the 734. If MEL reads this he would probably be well-placed to set us right.

Quoting GoingAround:
Was it not the size of the vibration gauge? I remember hearing that it was the size of a 20p piece,

I've never been on the flight deck of a 734, but from pictures (and comments I have read here) it would appear that the position isn't ideal, and the LEDs aren't very bright. The CAA requested a redesign after this accident but I seem to recall that it wasn't done.

Quoting GoingAround:
Is it true that a passenger heard the announcement about them shutting off the left engine, and told the stewardess that the flames were coming from the right, she told him not to worry and that the crew knew what they were doing?!

Not exactly.

After the smoke was detected on the flight deck, the captain called the FAs and asked whether they had seen smoke too. They said that they had, so it was probably obvious to them that the captain knew something was wrong. Consequently, although they had seen flames coming from the rear of the left engine, but did not communicate the fact to the flight crew. I wasn't there, but I guess they didn't feel they had to.

When the captain spoke over the PA to say that they were shutting down the right engine, the FAs apparently did not hear him say "right". Some of the passengers did, but they didn't say anything to the FAs.
Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
 
FlyingColours
Posts: 2202
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:13 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Thu May 31, 2007 8:35 pm

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 22):
My memory is all rusty - I recalled that it was fed from from the left on the 732 (as you say) but from the right on the 734. If MEL reads this he would probably be well-placed to set us right.

I believe it was the 737-300 that they were familiar on first, I don't have the AAIB report on me right now. Yup MEL will know the answer to the more important question of which engine feeds the air con  Smile

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 22):
I've never been on the flight deck of a 734, but from pictures (and comments I have read here) it would appear that the position isn't ideal, and the LEDs aren't very bright. The CAA requested a redesign after this accident but I seem to recall that it wasn't done.

I think the report said that the EFIS? gauges were all white with no colours to indicate when the reading has gone into the 'red', I think all the gauges were white on the early models.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Florian Joachim



The Vibration indicators are found on the right EFIS panel, just above the Hydraulic pressure indicators near the bottom. The gauge is still white, however the N1, EGT and N2 indicators are coloured.

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 22):
When the captain spoke over the PA to say that they were shutting down the right engine, the FAs apparently did not hear him say "right". Some of the passengers did, but they didn't say anything to the FAs.

I think one of the issues here is that when the captain began his announcment he started with "Ladies and Gentlemen...." at which point most crew will redirect their attention to what they were doing. Now it is standard practice over here to begin emergency PA's with "Attention Attention, This is an emergency announcment", that way we know its not just a PA about what country we are overflying.

Phil
FlyingColours
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
 
BAE146QT
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:58 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Thu May 31, 2007 8:43 pm

Quoting Me:
My memory is all rusty - I recalled that it was fed from from the left on the 732 (as you say) but from the right on the 734. If MEL reads this he would probably be well-placed to set us right.

Found the report...

Begin Fair Use:

"After the accident, he stated that he had judged the No2 engine to be at fault from his knowledge of aircraft air conditioning systems. His resoning was that he thought the smoke and fumes were coming from the passenger cabin; the air for the cabin came mostly from the No2 engine; therefore the trouble lay in that engine.
Whilst this reasoning might have applied fairly well to other aircraft he had flown, it was flawed in this case because some of the air conditioning air for the passenger cabin of the Boeing 737-400 comes from the No 1 engine."

/Fair Use

The report goes on to say that his assertion may have been spurious because of some odd timings, but the point is that you were right; some comes from No1, some from No2.
Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
 
DrDeke
Posts: 805
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:13 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:45 am

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 9):
Indeed. Not so very long ago, a friend of mine lost the engine on climb-out... on his first solo. It just seized.

So how'd that turn out? Did he make it back to the airport, or land elsewhere?
If you don't want it known, don't say it on a phone.
 
Qantas744er
Posts: 1149
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:36 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:23 am

Not really an accident but the first AF 777-300ER on delivery flight from PAE to CDG suffered an engine n.2 failure and carried on to CDG

Leo
Happiness is V1 in Lagos
 
BAE146QT
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:58 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:20 pm

Quoting DrDeke:
So how'd that turn out? Did he make it back to the airport, or land elsewhere?

He ended up in a fallow field, across the road from the aerodrome. Last I spoke to him, they still had no idea why the engine just seized up like that.
Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
 
BAE146QT
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:58 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:30 pm

Quoting Flying Colours:
I think one of the issues here is that when the captain began his announcment he started with "Ladies and Gentlemen...." at which point most crew will redirect their attention to what they were doing.

That's understandable, in it's way. I imagine if you hear enough "Ladies and Gentlemen...." announcements, you would tend to tune them out.

Interesting that none of the passengers challenged it, though. I can't imagine an American just sitting there quietly, ("Listen buddy - I paid for this goddam ticket and if I tell you the left engine is broken then the left engine is broken! The customer is always right, capice?"), or even a modern English passenger, ("Oi, Doris - the pilot don't know 'is left from 'is right.").

We're a lot more vocal and assertive these days. Not always a good thing, but...

Hypothesis: All other things being equal, if this incident occurred today, the outcome would be different because this one last chance to get it right would not have been missed.

What do you think?
Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
 
FlyingColours
Posts: 2202
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:13 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:52 pm

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 28):
Hypothesis: All other things being equal, if this incident occurred today, the outcome would be different because this one last chance to get it right would not have been missed.

What do you think?

Yup, I believe the outcome would have been different and they made it down ok. Weather it's because the announcement would have been changed or because a passenger pointed it out to the crew, who in turn told the pilots (because the relationship between cabin crew and pilots has changed so much for the better over the years - apparently) so they would not feel like they were doing anything wrong for questioning the flight crew. We are the eyes and ears for what goes on in the cabin, we also get a good view of the wings and engines too and are taught the basics of flight (engines & control surfaces & how to spot icing) too these days  Smile

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 28):
nteresting that none of the passengers challenged it, though. I can't imagine an American just sitting there quietly, ("Listen buddy - I paid for this goddam ticket and if I tell you the left engine is broken then the left engine is broken!

Haha  Smile I once had a guy tell me that he knew the 737-400 could take off from ACE on "that" runway at "this" temperature because the winds never change and we were only going to divert for fuel because "our" airline couldn't afford to buy it in ACE so we would go to LPA where it is cheaper......

The flying public has indeed changed, some for the better and some are just plain mouthy.

Phil
FlyingColours
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
 
BAE146QT
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:58 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:30 am

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 29):
Haha I once had a guy tell me that he knew the 737-400 could take off from ACE on "that" runway at "this" temperature because the winds never change and we were only going to divert for fuel because "our" airline couldn't afford to buy it in ACE so we would go to LPA where it is cheaper......

Phil, maybe it's been done before, (or maybe it was elsewhere) but I think that this warrants a different thread, as I do not want to take over this onethrough thread drift. I'll sort one out. Hope you're happy to pitch in.
Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17049
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 23):

The Vibration indicators are found on the right EFIS panel, just above the Hydraulic pressure indicators near the bottom. The gauge is still white, however the N1, EGT and N2 indicators are coloured.

To add to the confusion
- The actual "needles" on the gauges are tiny little things.
- The engine instrument layout is (in columns from left to right): left engine main instruments, right engine main, left engine secondary, right engine secondary. More intuitive (IMHO) would be left engine secondary, left engine main, right engine main, right engine secondary. That way the centerline of the instrumentation is equivalent to the centerline of the aircraft.

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 27):
He ended up in a fallow field, across the road from the aerodrome. Last I spoke to him, they still had no idea why the engine just seized up like that.

I bet he could hear Murphy cackling quietly in the background.

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 28):
n American just sitting there quietly, ("Listen buddy - I paid for this goddam ticket and if I tell you the left engine is broken then the left engine is broken! The customer is always right, capice?"), or even a modern English passenger, ("Oi, Doris - the pilot don't know 'is left from 'is right.").



[Edited 2007-06-01 19:54:55]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
 
BAE146QT
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:58 am

RE: Accidents On First Flight?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:04 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 31):
I bet he could hear Murphy cackling quietly in the background.

Muphy is only Finagle's prophet. He's the harbinger of disaster.

Finagle was in the background, holding a pair of worn-out crankshaft bearing shells and hooting with laughter.
Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests