dhhornet
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 4:01 am

Planes With Skirts!?

Thu May 31, 2007 3:57 am

I am sure I have seen picture years ago a DHC-4 or 5? with a hovercraft type skirt.

Could this be the future replacement for wheels/skis/floats?
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Thu May 31, 2007 4:07 am

I remember a Popular Science article from the late 70's/early 80's, which featured pictures (artists' renditions) of 727's and DC-9's with hovercraft skirts, proclaiming this to be the future at airports near the water like SAN and SFO... or, at least, that someone had proposed the idea...IIRC, they were arguing that adding a hovercraft skirt to allow water landings really didn't add thta much weight especially when the landing gear was eliminated...I'd love to see a good crosswind landing with no friction from the tires personally

EDIT: clarified that the "pictures" in the article weren't actual photographs before someone called me on it

EDIT: I kan spell, reelly... Big grin

[Edited 2007-05-30 21:11:17]

[Edited 2007-05-30 21:13:02]
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
chksix
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:16 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Thu May 31, 2007 4:11 am

Let's see the conveyor belt stop that plane  duck 
The conveyor belt plane will fly
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17055
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Thu May 31, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting Chksix (Reply 2):
Let's see the conveyor belt stop that plane duck

Oooooooooh. 2 minutes in the penalty box for that one. Big grin

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
EDIT: clarified that the "pictures" in the article weren't actual photographs before someone called me on it

Yes well it is "Popular Science", also known as "nice graphics, shame about the physics."
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Thu May 31, 2007 5:11 am



The system was known as the ACLS, or Air Cushion Landing System, and it was used on a military variant of the deHavilland DHC-5 Buffalo. I believe it was designated the XC-5A.

I can't believe I don't have any better pics than these:






2H4

Intentionally Left Blank
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Thu May 31, 2007 5:58 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
...I'd love to see a good crosswind landing with no friction from the tires personally

Ya me too. And I'd like to see how they would eliminate the bouncing problem Big grin
 
WrenchBender
Posts: 1662
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:59 am

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Thu May 31, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
I believe it was designated the XC-5A.

XC8A, it was a joint Bell and Boeing attempt, with participation of US and Canadian militaries.
See Serial Number 5 in the following link
http://www.dhc4and5.org/BuffaloRev3.pdf
Still flying as CC115451 in the Canadian Forces at 442 Transport and Rescue Sqn, Comox, BC

WrenchBender
Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
 
futurecaptain
Posts: 1918
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:54 am

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Thu May 31, 2007 7:04 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
I can't believe I don't have any better pics than these:

I can't believe you have pics of this plane period.

Did you sell your soul for all the random, unknown, never-before-seen aviation pics in the world? Seems every topic no matter how far fetched you have a pic. I'm sure I could ask for a DC-6, painted pink, with a RAT installed, with winglets and you would have a pic uploaded within a day.


Anyways, on topic...

From the pics it looks alot like a simple raft has been inflated under the airplane, although I'm sure it was more than this...I hope. Did this raft deflate in flight or what?
AirSO. ASpaceO. ASOnline. ASO.com ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO.
 
rwessel
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:47 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Thu May 31, 2007 8:41 am

Another "all terrain" landing gear design was the *tracked* (yes, like on a tank) landing gear tried on a B-36.


http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/fac...ets/factsheet.asp?fsID=2585&page=5
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17055
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Thu May 31, 2007 9:09 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
I can't believe I don't have any better pics than these:

Penalty box for you too! Dissapointed!!! Big grin

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 7):

From the pics it looks alot like a simple raft has been inflated under the airplane, although I'm sure it was more than this...I hope. Did this raft deflate in flight or what?

IIRC it did yes.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Thu May 31, 2007 11:36 am




Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 6):
XC8A

Ah yes....thanks.

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 7):
I can't believe you have pics of this plane period.

What I meant was, I could have sworn I had some nicer shots, showing more of a side view. I'll keep looking....

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 7):
Did you sell your soul for all the random, unknown, never-before-seen aviation pics in the world?

Nope, I've just spent many, many hours practicing for flight team, and run across a lot of interesting things while cleaning up the database.  Wink

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 7):
I'm sure I could ask for a DC-6, painted pink, with a RAT installed, with winglets and you would have a pic uploaded within a day.

Now you're just being silly. The pink RAT winglet conversion was only approved for DC-7s.

Quoting Rwessel (Reply 8):
Another "all terrain" landing gear design was the *tracked* (yes, like on a tank) landing gear tried on a B-36.

This one had tracks, too....but I'm not sure whether it has actually flown in this configuration:



Gotta love Oshkosh...

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
Penalty box for you too! Dissapointed!!!

 boxedin 


2H4

Intentionally Left Blank
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Thu May 31, 2007 12:59 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 3):
2 minutes in the penalty box for that one.

2 measly minutes? Bringing up conveyor belts outside of one particular thread is a five minute major as far as I'm concerned.  Smile

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17055
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Thu May 31, 2007 1:06 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
2 measly minutes? Bringing up conveyor belts outside of one particular thread is a five minute major as far as I'm concerned.

Hehe. I moved from Sweden a few years ago so the rules of hockey are not quite as fresh in my mind as they should be. Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Thu May 31, 2007 1:52 pm



Here's another tidbit. The Bell LA-4 ACLS test aircraft was a modified Lake LA-4 amphibian that used a separate 90hp motor to inflate the landing cushion. Later tests experimented with the introduction of suction to the landing cushion as a method of slowing on the ground and decreasing landing distances.



2H4

Intentionally Left Blank
 
dhhornet
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 4:01 am

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Thu May 31, 2007 7:41 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
The system was known as the ACLS, or Air Cushion Landing System, and it was used on a military variant of the deHavilland DHC-5 Buffalo. I believe it was designated the XC-5A.

I can't believe I don't have any better pics than these

Well done 2H4    . I was thinking it was all from a dream!

Still a great Idea.

http://www.combatreform2.com/c130.htm

A pant wetting site with nice pictures and drawings. I like the Herc !

[Edited 2007-05-31 12:55:29]
 
N215AZ
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:12 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:04 pm

2H4, i do believe it is time for another raving round of, "Name That Airplane!"

 airplane 

N215AZ
"Atra esterní ono thelduin, Mor'ranr lífa unin hjarta onr, Un du evarínya ono varda."
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:24 pm

Quoting N215AZ (Reply 15):
2H4, i do believe it is time for another raving round of, "Name That Airplane!"

It's getting to be that time, isn't it?

I've been debating how best to run the next quiz. I'm thinking, instead of posting new shots at random times, when certain folks may be at work or asleep, I could post a new shot every two/three days, at a time that works for the majority of us. Suggestions?

I also think it might be better for everyone to submit guesses via private message directly to me, rather than posting guesses in the thread for everyone to see. That way, you never know who might have already guessed it, or what the general train of thought is. Nobody would know who guessed it first/correctly until the answer is unveiled. Agree/disagree?

Finally, I'll need to figure out what prizes will be offered. Most of my belongings are currently in storage, so I may ask for volunteers to donate obscure aviation artifacts to be used as prizes.

What do you guys think?


2H4

Intentionally Left Blank
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17055
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:36 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 16):
I also think it might be better for everyone to submit guesses via private message directly to me, rather than posting guesses in the thread for everyone to see. That way, you never know who might have already guessed it, or what the general train of thought is. Nobody would know who guessed it first/correctly until the answer is unveiled. Agree/disagree?

I think that is best. That way there is no time zone unfairness involved and such.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:33 am

Were there any Scottish aircraft manufacturers?

If so, and you applied a hovercraft "Skirt" to them, I'd imagine the Scots would paint it plaid and call it a "Kilt"  Wink
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
David L
Posts: 8547
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 16):
Quoting N215AZ (Reply 15):
2H4, i do believe it is time for another raving round of, "Name That Airplane!"

It's getting to be that time, isn't it?

 bouncy 

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 16):
I also think it might be better for everyone to submit guesses via private message directly to me, rather than posting guesses in the thread for everyone to see. That way, you never know who might have already guessed it, or what the general train of thought is. Nobody would know who guessed it first/correctly until the answer is unveiled. Agree/disagree?

Well, yes and no. Better for those submitting guesses but not so interesting for the rest of us. I suppose a daily summary of what guesses have been made might be OK.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 18):
Were there any Scottish aircraft manufacturers?

Um... Scottish Aviation.  Smile

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 18):
I'd imagine the Scots would paint it plaid

Except we'd paint it "tartan"... but only for weddings and soccer/rugby matches.  Smile
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5181
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:57 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
Reply 4, posted Wed May 30 2007

The props on the bottom picture look stationary - I'd assume that those would at least be windmilling if the plane was in motion. Are the engines supposed to be cut prior to "touchdown" or was this an early version of "photoshopping"?
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17055
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:20 am

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 20):
The props on the bottom picture look stationary - I'd assume that those would at least be windmilling if the plane was in motion. Are the engines supposed to be cut prior to "touchdown" or was this an early version of "photoshopping"?

High shutter speed? Big grin

Seriously, it would have to be viciously high. Perhaps they were trying engine out landings.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:30 am

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 20):
The props on the bottom picture look stationary

Not to me. It looks like there's some blur at the tips.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
Seriously, it would have to be viciously high. Perhaps they were trying engine out landings.

I'll defer to an expert for specifics, but I believe propeller RPM at idle is likely only about 800 to 1000 RPM.


2H4

Intentionally Left Blank
 
User avatar
Jetlagged
Posts: 2562
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:00 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:41 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 22):
I'll defer to an expert for specifics, but I believe propeller RPM at idle is likely only about 800 to 1000 RPM.

In 1/1000 sec, not an uncommon shutter speed, a 10 ft propeller rotating at 1,000 RPM would move about 1 ft, or about 10% of its radius, at the tip. Note that the propeller blades pointing more or less vertically up appear squeezed and the ones near vertically down look to be stretched, a distortion effect caused by horizontal shutter curtains. The bottom blades are moving in the same direction as the shutter, the top blades in the opposite direction.

Since an air cushion takes time to pressurise and this can only happen within inches of the ground, vertical speed at touchdown must have had to be quite small. The skirt itself wouldn't bear much weight.

As for Scottish hovercraft having kilts, I wouldn't recommend telling a Scot that the kilt he is wearing is really a skirt.  box   fight 
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 
lowrider
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:09 am

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 16):
Finally, I'll need to figure out what prizes will be offered. Most of my belongings are currently in storage, so I may ask for volunteers to donate obscure aviation artifacts to be used as prizes.

Absolutely. I have been trying to clean out the basement in preparation for an upcoming move. I found books down there I forgot I had. They need to go to a good home. From coffee table books to old AFMs. I am still looking, but I think I have a few FlightSafety cockpit posters as well.
Proud OOTSK member
 
futurecaptain
Posts: 1918
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:54 am

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:57 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 16):
What do you guys think?

I'm thinking its time to play "stump 2H4"

We all will post requests for aircraft photos and see when we stumble upon some obscure plane you don't have a photo of.  Smile

Seriously, who has a pic of a plane with a raft on the belly and a plane on tracks.  Smile
AirSO. ASpaceO. ASOnline. ASO.com ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO.
 
N215AZ
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:12 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:50 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 16):
What do you guys think?

I think you need to offer a first class membership to the winner.

N215AZ
"Atra esterní ono thelduin, Mor'ranr lífa unin hjarta onr, Un du evarínya ono varda."
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:33 pm

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 25):
I'm thinking its time to play "stump 2H4"

We all will post requests for aircraft photos and see when we stumble upon some obscure plane you don't have a photo of.

That would be fun, but I'm easy to stump. Anything built prior to WWII, for example, is way beyond me.

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 25):
Seriously, who has a pic of a plane with a raft on the belly and a plane on tracks.

Heck, planes with rafts on their bellies aren't so hard to find:





....nor are planes on tracks:


Boeing EB-50





Douglas A-20 Havoc





Quoting N215AZ (Reply 26):
I think you need to offer a first class membership to the winner.

Hey, all I do is correct information and change "finals" to "final". I don't even have the authority to offer an a.net thong...

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 24):
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 16):
Finally, I'll need to figure out what prizes will be offered. Most of my belongings are currently in storage, so I may ask for volunteers to donate obscure aviation artifacts to be used as prizes.

Absolutely. I have been trying to clean out the basement in preparation for an upcoming move. I found books down there I forgot I had. They need to go to a good home. From coffee table books to old AFMs. I am still looking, but I think I have a few FlightSafety cockpit posters as well.

Well, before we start the next contest, we're going to need a few others to step up and volunteer to send a prize or two to the winners.

Let's hear it, guys.....what is the strangest and/or most obscure aviation-related item you'd be willing to donate?  eyebrow 


2H4

Intentionally Left Blank
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17055
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:13 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 27):
Let's hear it, guys.....what is the strangest and/or most obscure aviation-related item you'd be willing to donate?

Errr. Well I am the opposite of a hoarder so I have no trinkets... In cases like this it's kind of a mixed blessing.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
N231YE
Posts: 2620
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:24 am

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:46 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 27):
I don't even have the authority to offer an a.net thong...

I am sure that 95% of Airliners.net users could make good use of that thing...

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 27):
what is the strangest and/or most obscure aviation-related item you'd be willing to donate?

A 2-liter soda bottle filled with 100LL?  wink 

Joking aside, I do think its about time for another one of those threads, 2H4.
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:49 am

Yea Im trying to rack my brain for any crap that I have.

Nope cant think of any, but I agree with my EAA brethren 231YE that its time for another thread.

(Note to 231YE, I just read the magazine again with the bird on the cover).

ATCT
Trikes are for kids!
 
N231YE
Posts: 2620
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:24 am

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:47 am

Quoting ATCT (Reply 30):
Note to 231YE, I just read the magazine again with the bird on the cover.

The one from April 2007 (Vol. 56, No. 4) with the "EAA Young Eagles Program Turns 15" on the front?  smile  I had the chance to fly it in AirVenture 2005; it was nice "being on the other side" of the airshow.

By the way, I know an Air Traffic Controller from TOL (taught an ATC class at my university) who is going to OSH this year...
 
N215AZ
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:12 pm

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:04 pm

Quoting N231YE (Reply 31):
By the way, I know an Air Traffic Controller from TOL (taught an ATC class at my university) who is going to OSH this year...

I am still trying to talk my parents into letting me fly into there. So I can experience all the fun and excitement. If you hear someone with a New York accent, that's him.

N215AZ
"Atra esterní ono thelduin, Mor'ranr lífa unin hjarta onr, Un du evarínya ono varda."
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5181
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Planes With Skirts!?

Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:25 am

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 23):
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 22):
I'll defer to an expert for specifics, but I believe propeller RPM at idle is likely only about 800 to 1000 RPM.

In 1/1000 sec, not an uncommon shutter speed, a 10 ft propeller rotating at 1,000 RPM would move about 1 ft, or about 10% of its radius, at the tip.

Found a good illustration of the "phenomenon".....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...opter-appears-to-defy-gravity.html

.....and a thread started about it.....
Helicopter Flight Question-see Video (by Mirrodie May 19 2007 in Tech Ops)
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: hi_flyer and 20 guests