B6ramprat
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How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:18 am

How much to change the belly of the plane and get the equipment for it. I bring it up because doing the JFK-SJU, SDQ, STI , BDQ routes out of JFK. I wish we had containers instead of having to free pack it. The bags are insanely heavy especially going down to D.R
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CV580Freak
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:23 am

Well, I never knew A320's were built that could only be bulk loaded, learn something every day.

Obviously lower weights which may equal additional range (?)

It could be worse, you could be in the Middle East where everyone checks in 5 massive suitcases and 10 huge boxes  Smile
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B6ramprat
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:28 am

[quote=CV580Freak,reply=1]Well, I never knew A320's were built that could only be bulk loaded, learn something every day.[/quote

I flew on an Air France A320 where they used containers.
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swissy
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:45 am

There are several airlines which use the containers.............  Smile, however you need a "K" loader which is usually not a problem with primary airports, have seen only a few secondary airports with the loaders...... these loaders are not cheap compare to a simple belt loader.
Have worked on both and yes it is a lot nicer with the cans and I prefer the 320 over any 737 if I had to free load.

Cheers,
 
rdwelch
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:48 am

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 1):
It could be worse, you could be in the Middle East where everyone checks in 5 massive suitcases and 10 huge boxes

Remember, people don't travel anymore, they move in..

Gus.
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zeke
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:50 am

Quoting B6ramprat (Thread starter):
How much to change the belly of the plane and get the equipment for it.

I think all the aircraft come standard suitable for container loading, some low cost airlines are using containers to reduce the number or people, and the time required to turn an aircraft about by using containers.
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B6ramprat
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:06 am

Quoting Swissy (Reply 3):
Have worked on both and yes it is a lot nicer with the cans and I prefer the 320 over any 737 if I had to free load

I have a new found respect for those who have to load md 80's and 90's and all other in there catogory after we got the E 190's. Its like packing in a coffin.
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edina
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:07 am

BA's 320s & 321s are all containerised. The 319s are equipped, but not currently used; however the 319 fleet will soon be all containerised in preparation for the move to T5 @ LHR.
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Panman
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:36 am

Having had to do the mods in the hangar to convert from bulk loading to contanerized and vice versa, I would say that it does not cost much in parts or manhours (takes a few hours - can be do in one shift) - well in the aviation world that is (everything is expensive). I wouldn't be able to do it from my personal bank account.
 
swissy
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:30 am

Quoting B6ramprat (Reply 6):
I have a new found respect for those who have to load md 80's and 90's and all other in there catogory after we got the E 190's. Its like packing in a coffin.

Include the F100............ Big grin, yup everything is tuned for pax comfort, what about the rampies??

Quoting Panman (Reply 8):
Having had to do the mods in the hangar to convert from bulk loading to contanerized and vice versa, I would say that it does not cost much in parts or manhours (takes a few hours - can be do in one shift)

Agree the cost is not "much" but the ground equipment is the main reason for many airlines not to use these cans.... or just use them on primary airports. Feels good driving a loader on to a 320..... Big grin

Cheers,
 
mayhem
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:11 am

How much is the cost difference for ground handlers actually for ULD's vs bulk? It seems that they are much cheaper, if you consider the loading/unloading steps needed..

It always surprised me that the A319 could handle ULD's and the 738 etc not... but once you've seen the interior of the hold you get to see why  Smile

IIRC most of the charters don't use ULD's neither... Which are pain in the asses for the loaders as those tourists know how to pack.
 
Lemurs
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting Swissy (Reply 9):
Include the F100............ , yup everything is tuned for pax comfort, what about the rampies??

Last I checked, rampers are still a cost center instead of a profit center. When they start making the airlines money by crawling around down there, you can be sure there will be leather sofas and beer taps installed. Until then, coffins away!
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DALCE
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:49 am

LH uses the containers on the 320 and 321, but the 319 is loose cargo / baggage only.
To some airports LH can't operate the 320/321 due to the lack of loading/unloading equipment.
VNO is an example for this, and will only be served by 733/735 or 319.
For cargo the use of the containers gives you more flexibility as you can load heavier pcs without having problems for the rampies. Max gross weight on the AKH's with LH is 1134kgs.
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B6ramprat
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:51 am

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 11):
Last I checked, rampers are still a cost center instead of a profit center. When they start making the airlines money by crawling around down there, you can be sure there will be leather sofas and beer taps installed. Until then, coffins away!

In our E190 bellies, the fire supression system is protected by a grate that comes down off the ceiling. Now why couldn't it be flush with the ceiling. Now you have to wear bump caps if you want so you don't hurt your head. Leather sofas and beer taps I don't need. what i do need is better design of and airplane for us to move around in.
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mayhem
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:39 am

Quoting B6ramprat (Reply 13):
Quoting Lemurs (Reply 11):
Last I checked, rampers are still a cost center instead of a profit center. When they start making the airlines money by crawling around down there, you can be sure there will be leather sofas and beer taps installed. Until then, coffins away!



Quoting B6ramprat (Reply 13):
what i do need is better design of and airplane for us to move around in.

Yep, and better designs = faster workers, less injured workers = less costs, you increase profit by increasing your revenues or decreasing your costs...

For cargo the containerized aircraft also have the possibility to load those "pallets", so that saves quite some time too...
 
PGNCS
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:42 pm

Quoting Swissy (Reply 3):
Have worked on both and yes it is a lot nicer with the cans and I prefer the 320 over any 737 if I had to free load.



Same with the cockpit: I will always take the A-320 (spacious and ergonomic) versus the 737 (cramped, noisy, and no room for my bag), unfortunately our fleet planners didn't see it that way.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:09 pm

The containers depending on the numbers would add weight.On our B737 & B757 Freighters.We have opted out of using containers in the Maindeck & opted for Pallets with Lashing as the Savings in weight per pallet was approx 170kgs.Added up that would be a huge weight penalty.
The Bulk containers would def be lighter but a weight penalty never the less.
regds
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zenarcade
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:41 pm

I'm assuming you can fit in a heck of a lot more luggage by packing it in loose rather than in containers?

How much (if any) turn around time is saved by using containers?
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:31 pm





Quoting Zenarcade (Reply 17):
How much (if any) turn around time is saved by using containers

If time consumed for loading is taken into account.There is a def time saving as retrival & loading of containers is faster.The drawback is added weight.
regds
MEL
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JoePatroni
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RE: How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320

Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:32 am

AC has containerized A320 and A321 but the A319s are bulk loaded. I have to say though, there are quite a few more safety procedures to follow with those containerized flights. I can't tell you how many dents and punctures AC gets on their A320s. Putting a loader meant for a wide body up to an A320 means your working in pretty cramped space and therefore dents and dings happen all the time. In fact AC installed this reflective tape on the flap covers to make them more visible to the loader operator.

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Quoting B6ramprat (Reply 13):
In our E190 bellies, the fire supression system is protected by a grate that comes down off the ceiling. Now why couldn't it be flush with the ceiling. Now you have to wear bump caps if you want so you don't hurt your head. Leather sofas and beer taps I don't need. what i do need is better design of and airplane for us to move around in.

Totally agreed! Those E190 pits are the WORST. Talk about back pain and head injuries!!!
But hey, at least they're darn comfortable to sit in and watch a movie. Right?!?
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