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Starlionblue
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DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:34 pm

An acquaintance pointed out that according to the FAA, there are several DC-9 Series 10 versions.
DC-9-11
DC-9-12
DC-9-13
DC-9-14
DC-9-15
DC-9-15F
See here for example http://www.wamcoinc.com/m-airlines/FAA-PMA.pdf

Boeing's airport planning doc for the DC-9 http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/acaps/dc9.pdf lists only the -15 and -15F.

If you search the a.net picture db for dc-9-11, it's cn 45728/14.

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This same cn is later shown as a -14.

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Pic 0008440 says it's a -14 "built as an -11". If that's true conversions were possible just like you can convert a -81 to a -82.


My "Douglas Jetliners" book is no help. Does anyone know the difference between the various DC-9 Series 10?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:02 am

Probably the difference in engine thrust would be the deciding factor. Personally I only know of the -11, -14 & -15. And all of the -11s were upgraded to the -14 & -15. There were 137 series -10s built, now recoginizes as only the -14 (57 frames) and the -15 (80 frames). Also the DC-9-30s had 4 different versions, the -31, -32, -33 & -34....the most submodels of any DC-9, except for the MD-80, which had 5 versions. The DC-9 also seen the -21, -41 and -51 as well.
Regards.
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Starlionblue
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:11 am

Thanks. Do you have any more detailed info?

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 1):
.the most submodels of any DC-9, except for the MD-80, which had 5 versions.

Actually only 4 (DC-9-81, DC-9-82, DC-9-83 and DC-9-87). The MD-88 is no longer a DC-9. It's MD-88, not DC-9-88. But it's a grey area.  Wink
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
N231YE
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:22 am

Possibly customer codes? Then again, I don't think Douglas (later McDonnell Douglas) really got into the codes concept...
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 3):
Possibly customer codes? Then again, I don't think Douglas (later McDonnell Douglas) really got into the codes concept...

They did not have customer codes.

I think FlagshipAZ is on the right track with the thrust ratings. For example, on the Series 80, -81/-82/-83 designate versions with regard to MTOW/range, plus the -87 which is a shrink.
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FlagshipAZ
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:29 am

The only detailed info I can remember would be the engine's thrust ratings. The -14 has PW JT8D-1, at 14,000 lbs of thrust, while the -15 has PW JT8D-7 and/or -9, at 14,500 lbs of thrust. There are some minor weight variations as well, but the main difference is the engines.
Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:56 am

Thanks FlagshipAZ. Now if we could just figure out the -11/-12/-13 variants.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
SlamClick
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:10 am

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 1):
Probably the difference in engine thrust would be the deciding factor.

This might indeed be true but I'm pretty sure the original type certificate data sheet for the -11 (for example) authorizes JT-8D-1 through -7B just as it does for the -14/-15.

I flew several thousand hours in DC-9-15 exclusively and flew with the whole range of engines mounted with no perceptible differences noted. It has been a long time but I think I recall that our basic configuration was -7A or -7B. We were a pretty dirtbag outfit (how's that for honesty) and probably bought our engines by the ton. I think I recall a lot of intermix flying with a dash seven on one side and a dash five purchased out of a boneyard in Outer Umbrellastan on the other. Further it seems that any intermix we had to operate both at the lower thrust rating. I'm pretty sure I also flew with a -9 operated at -7 thrust for a while but no kidding, it really has been a while.

I know for certain that we occasionally ran JT-8D-1 for a time and once took one of them to the overhaul shop and got a phone call back from them the first day it was on their floor. It seems that we had a Pratt & Whitney prototype or something (call it a dash 0.5) because the compressor case was not split into two longitudinal halves that could be unbolted for disassembly. They had to remove the bullet and that assembly, slide the first compressor stage off the shaft, unbolt the stators behind it, slide the second stage off and so on. No one in that shop had ever seen such a thing.

But through it all the aircraft remained a -15, according to its stamped-in-metal dataplate.

Ran across this among my stuff:

DC-9-10 Popular nomenclature for Series 10

DC-9-11 (Series 10), initial production, JT8D-1 then also JT8D-1A/-1B/-5/-7/-7A/-7B/-9/-11/-17, MGTOW 77,700lb (later to 85,700lb); all converted to -14

DC-9-12 (Series 10), JT8D-5, later -1/-7, MGTOW 79,500lb, later 85,700lb; all converted to -14

DC-9-13 (Series 10), JT8D-5, later -1/-7, MGTOW 85,700lb; none built

DC-9-14 (Series 10), JT8D-5, later -1/-7, MGTOW 87,500lb, later 90,700lb

DC-9-14 (F) (Series 10), freighter conversion of -14 with SCD

DC-9-15 (Series 10), JT8D-1, later -7, MGTOW 90,700

DC-9-15 (F) (Series 10), freighter conversion of -15 with SCD

DC-9-15F (Series 10), freighter with SCD; JT8D-7, MGTOW 90,700lb

DC-9-15F (MC) (Series 10), Minimum Change (DAC: -15MC), -15F with folding seats

DC-9-15F (RC) (Series 10), Rapid Change (DAC: -15RC), -15F with seats on pallets


Or maybe it just comes down to whether the panel was...

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Proper gray or Tijuana Turquoise.

TTFN
Slam
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Starlionblue
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:04 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 7):
Outer Umbrellastan

I believe that's where transfer luggage at LHR has to go through.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 7):

Proper gray or Tijuana Turquoise.

Please, that's "Soyuz Green"...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:37 am

Time for a shameless self plug: http://rosboch.net/aviation.htm#McDonnellDouglasVersionCodes. Note that you may have to scroll up a touch. I am not a good web designer.

Updated with the info in Captain Click's post above and some other stuff. As usual, corrections and additions are much appreciated.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
KELPkid
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:57 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
I am not a good web designer.

Indeed, the fonts aren't even the same on the rest of the buttons versus your new McDD button Big grin Don't sweat it, you should see the PHP pages I'm designing right now for my employer...they're just aching for a proper web designer to come along and make it look pretty. I'm mainly just writing the PHP code and the database part of it  Wink
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A342
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:19 am

A bit off topic, but anyway: I know that all those Boeing (and Douglas) airport planning documents can be found here.

Is there a similar site for Airbus aircraft? Always having to look up the following topic is a bit annoying, and I wasn't able to find a master site:
A Link For Airbus Load/ Range Charts (by SunriseValley Jul 13 2006 in Tech Ops)
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
N231YE
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:57 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):

I love your site, Starlionblue. Just one thing:

Quote:
DC-9-21 Series 20 Special version for SAS with Series 10 fuselage and Series 30 wings.

I've often read that the -20 also had the more powerful engines of the -30.
 
KELPkid
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:05 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 12):
Quote:
DC-9-21 Series 20 Special version for SAS with Series 10 fuselage and Series 30 wings.

I've often read that the -20 also had the more powerful engines of the -30.

Quick! What's Swedish or Norwegian for "Hot Rod?" Big grin
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
N231YE
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:45 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 13):
Quick! What's Swedish or Norwegian for "Hot Rod?" 

If I knew Swedish I wouldn't be here on A.Net...I'd probably be out trying to pick up women  biggrin 
 
broke
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:08 am

The early model of the DC-9-10 series airplanes were all upgraded to either the -14 or the -15. That was accomplished by installing higher thrust JT8D's and re-certifying the airframe to higher gross weights.
The only visual difference that I know of between the DC-9-14 and the DC-9-15 is that the -14 had one overwing emergency exit on each side of the fuselage, while the -15 had 2.
The DC-9-20 series airplanes had the same fuselage as the -10's but the wing had leading edge slats which reduced its approach and take-off speeds. The -10's also had nasty characteristics in icing and a couple were lost during either take-off or landing where wing leading edge icing was a contributing factor. These airplanes were built for both European and Japanese operators. Often the -20 operators also ordered the DC-9-40 which was a stretched DC-9-30. Eventually some American operators (TWA and ABXAir for 2) acquired -40's from the original operators, but none were built specifically for any American airlines.
 
SlamClick
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting Broke (Reply 15):
the -14 had one overwing emergency exit on each side of the fuselage, while the -15 had 2.

Not true. 643 photos in the database, here is a very small sampling.


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Photo © Jose Carreno



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Photo © Jovanny Gonzalez - AeroImagenes de Mexico



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Photo © Chuck Ross



...and on ond on. Dash -14 and -15 same tube. One overwing per side.

While the -21 reportedly had the same tube as the ten series it had one big difference, it appears to have had an aft stair where every ten series I ever saw had only the oval plug in the aft bulkhead and an escape slide. Note, however in this picture that it, too, had only one overwing per side.


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DC-9-21
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113312
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:06 am

As with all other type variants, the DC-9 series carries the type of it's original configuration until the end with very few exceptions. The engine initially installed can determine the model even if subsequently the engine variant is changed or intermixed. The same is true of initial weight certifications. Often, increased weights are approved for specific planes without it affecting their type.

Some of the variations on the Baby Nine, in addition to the initial engine and gross weight, included: Size of galley service door, aft airstair, and forward airstair, fuel capacity.
 
113312
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:34 am

The question regarding single vs. dual overwing exits on the series -15 Baby Nine is that they are only equipped when the aircraft was equipped with a factory main deck cargo door option such as the -15RC or 15MC models.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:09 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 12):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):

I love your site, Starlionblue. Just one thing:

Quote:
DC-9-21 Series 20 Special version for SAS with Series 10 fuselage and Series 30 wings.

I've often read that the -20 also had the more powerful engines of the -30.

Thx everyone for info. I will update soon!

Quoting N231YE (Reply 14):
If I knew Swedish I wouldn't be here on A.Net...I'd probably be out trying to pick up women

Hehe. Well, here is a pic of me and my Swedish wife.

http://rosboch.net/Uspic%20Andreas%20kissing%20Kat.jpg
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
KELPkid
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:39 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 19):
Hehe. Well, here is a pic of me and my Swedish wife.

Aah, a lovely Swedish bride. So's mine  Smile She just never lived in Sweden-her "Swedish" family is from a very small town in eastern Montana. Thankfully, her family doesn't like lutefisk  yuck 
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: DC-9-10 Versions. What's The Difference?

Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 20):
Thankfully, her family doesn't like lutefisk

In Swedish it's "lutfisk". "Lutefisk" is the Norwegian spelling. Anyway that's nothing compared to "surströmming", which should by rights be considered a nerve agent.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo

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