Blackbird
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Avro C.102 Jetliner Hyd. Systems Question

Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:15 pm

To the best of my knowledge, the Avro C.102 Jetliner featured hydraulic boosting on all control surfaces. My question is did it feature artificial-feel (something the Comet didn't have until after an accident or two) or not?

Andrea Kent
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Blackbird
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RE: Avro C.102 Jetliner Hyd. Systems Question

Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:57 am

Nobody has any answers?

Andrea K
 
Arrow
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RE: Avro C.102 Jetliner Hyd. Systems Question

Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:50 pm

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 1):
Nobody has any answers?

Pretty obscure airplane, Blackbird. My father did some of the engineering work on that bird and if he was still alive I'd ask him. I saw it fly many times, and I know it was well-advanced technologically, but that's the extent of my knowledge. I think Larry Milberry may have written a book about this plane -- try a google on that. I'm also quite sure that Jim Floyd, the designer of the jetliner (and the Avro Arrow) wrote a book on it, too.

Good luck
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Blackbird
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RE: Avro C.102 Jetliner Hyd. Systems Question

Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:34 am

Thank you for your help Arrow,

Andrea Kent
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: Avro C.102 Jetliner Hyd. Systems Question

Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:33 am

With boosted controls you don't normally need artificial feel. Some control hinge moment gets fed back to the pilot's control.

Quoting Blackbird (Thread starter):
something the Comet didn't have until after an accident or two

Steady. From what I've read the Comet I used springs for artificial feel. Not as good as hydraulic q-feel but better than nothing. The takeoff accidents were due to over-rotation and the symmetrical aerofoil the Comet had. Artificial feel is not much use at low speed.
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Blackbird
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RE: Avro C.102 Jetliner Hyd. Systems Question

Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:04 am

Jetlagged,

I had no idea that the Comet featured a symmetrical airfoil. I just knew that it stalled at a lower AoA than advertized. I thought the Comet was classified as having boosted-controls too... yet it had almost no feel.

Hmmm,
Andrea Kent
 
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RE: Avro C.102 Jetliner Hyd. Systems Question

Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:29 am

And no leading edge devices of course. Takeoff in a Comet must have been tricky.

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 5):
boosted-controls too... yet it had almost no feel

Boosted controls are like a car's power steering. Some systems give you lots of force feedback, others very little. It's analagous to a lever. I don't know how much feedback the Comet had, but it did use spring feel to add to the centreing force, with the datum shifts so the neutral point could be moved.

Fully powered controls give you no feedback at all.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 
twinotter4ever
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RE: Avro C.102 Jetliner Hyd. Systems Question

Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:27 pm

I believe the comet (4c at least) had 60 degress flaps. so they weren't too bad. But that would have been used more on landing.
 
Blackbird
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RE: Avro C.102 Jetliner Hyd. Systems Question

Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:45 pm

Most pictures of the comet I've seen had low deflections on the flaps during takeoff... deflections were very high during landing
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Avro C.102 Jetliner Hyd. Systems Question

Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:38 pm



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 5):
I had no idea that the Comet featured a symmetrical airfoil.

It was not symmetrical.

But as a consequense of the March 1953 disaster in Karachi the Comet 2 had the profile modified to become "less symmetrical".

The leading edge was drooped somewhat in order to increase take-off performance at a minor expense of slightly increased cruise drag.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Blackbird
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RE: Avro C.102 Jetliner Hyd. Systems Question

Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:38 pm

I thought the Comet 1's wing was modified to the Comet 2's design, which was already flying in 1952...


Andrea

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