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BreninTW
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Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:16 am

This picture was posted in Civ-Av, showing a Virgin Atlantic medical diversion to SLC:


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Photo © Devin B.



You can see that truck-mounted stairs were used to gain access to the cabin (I assume no suitable jetbridge was available.) I have a question: how do you get a passenger on a stretcher down those stairs? (I assume that since the pax was airlifted to hospital, he would have been in no condition to walk down the stairs.)

When I did first aid, I was once called out to stretcher out a spectator at a sports even who'd fallen down some stairs ... there were four of us on the stretcher, and we still struggled with the stairs -- and they were nowhere near as steep as the stairs in the picture.

The EMT at the lead of the stretcher would almost be holding it over his/her head in order to keep the patient more or less level, or those at the rear would be bent double. Could/would a scissor-lift (cargo loader) be used?
 
bond007
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:47 am

Use an evacuation chair.

Standard equipment in most ambulances AFAIK.

There isn't even enough room to get a pax on a stretcher in an airliner is there?


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HAWK21M
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:03 am

Quoting Brenintw (Thread starter):
how do you get a passenger on a stretcher down those stairs

The Stretcher has safety restraining belts & its possible to get it down those stairs.However preference would be a vertically moving Truck similiar to the catering truck used to service the Galleys.
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fr8mech
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting Brenintw (Thread starter):
how do you get a passenger on a stretcher down those stairs?

The same way you get a stretcher down any other set of steps; call the big burly men. All joking aside, big people can carry heavy things...a few big people can carry a stretcher down the stairs. I've even seen a patient carried (cradle carry) by a firefighter down some stairs, not the most advised, though effective. I did have to chew him out. Though expedient, the method was not warrented under the situation.

As stated, a stair chair can be used, if the patient's condition allows it.
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BreninTW
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:26 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 1):
There isn't even enough room to get a pax on a stretcher in an airliner is there

I would be surprised if there wasn't.

When I was at university, a classmate was seriously injured when she wrote her BMW off. After spending a few weeks in hospital, she was deemed "safe to fly" -- her father flew down in his twin-prop (Beechcraft I think) that seated about 8. They laid some of the seats flat, and loaded her in the A/C while still on a stretcher for the flight up to her hometown (1.5-hour flight). It wasn't comfortable for her, but it was doable.
 
pilotpip
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:31 am

The reason the aircraft isn't at a jetbridge is also the time it takes to park the plane could mean critical minutes lost. Get the aircraft on a remote parking ramp, shut it down, stairs truck and paramedics can be on in a moments. The ambulance could also have a more direct route off the airport, or in this case, the passenger could have been carried straight from aircraft to the waiting helicopter which is just feet away versus a good distance away due to the commotion around the gates.
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57AZ
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:21 pm

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 5):
The reason the aircraft isn't at a jetbridge is also the time it takes to park the plane could mean critical minutes lost.

True. One time when we were flying from Tucson to Huntsville, TX we heard AA make an emergency landing at ABQ for a medical emergency. We monitored their progress and appearently the passenger's condition was extremely grave-the captain told ATC that he was prepared to shut her down on the runway. For an aircrew, it can be a tough call-back some years ago, a DL crew nearly wrote off a MD-88 making a priority landing due to a misdiagnosed medical condition-cabin crew thought that a passenger was having a heart attack (turned out later to be a bad case of heartburn). Runway had less than optimal braking conditions-they blew two tires and nearly overran the runway.
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bond007
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:29 pm

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 4):
I would be surprised if there wasn't.

When I was at university, a classmate was seriously injured when she wrote her BMW off. After spending a few weeks in hospital, she was deemed "safe to fly" -- her father flew down in his twin-prop (Beechcraft I think) that seated about 8. They laid some of the seats flat, and loaded her in the A/C while still on a stretcher for the flight up to her hometown (1.5-hour flight). It wasn't comfortable for her, but it was doable.

Well, I was somewhat exaggerating, but if you can't roll a small bag down the aisle, it's tough to lay a stretcher down, get medics either side, and get a patient strapped in... not much better in the galley areas. I'm sure it's been done many times though, although unless there are back/neck issues, I guess that a chair is much easier.

Forcing somebody into a Baron in a stretcher is bad enough ... this comparison would be getting a passenger inside your Baron strapped into a stretcher, and then carried out ... ain't gonna happen  Smile


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BreninTW
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:00 pm

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 7):
Forcing somebody into a Baron in a stretcher is bad enough ... this comparison would be getting a passenger inside your Baron strapped into a stretcher, and then carried out ... ain't gonna happen

If someone's got enough space to lie down, you've got enough space to get them on a stretcher -- we were trained how to slide a stretcher under someone from front to back ... it's not an easy process, but doable.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 4):
When I was at university, a classmate was seriously injured when she wrote her BMW off. After spending a few weeks in hospital, she was deemed "safe to fly" -- her father flew down in his twin-prop (Beechcraft I think) that seated about 8.



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 7):
this comparison would be getting a passenger inside your Baron strapped into a stretcher, and then carried out

Sounds more like a Twin Bonanza or a Queen Air, possibly even a 90-series King Air  Wink

A little bit bigger than a Baron, but still not ideally large...  Smile
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bond007
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:00 am

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 8):
If someone's got enough space to lie down, you've got enough space to get them on a stretcher -- we were trained how to slide a stretcher under someone from front to back ... it's not an easy process, but doable.

If you're in a Baron (or even a King Air), I guarantee unless they have suspected spinal or neck injuries, you're probably not going to try and get them on a stretcher until they are off the plane.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9):
possibly even a 90-series King Air

...or even a 350 ??

...but could be Twin Bonanza  Wink

Jimbo
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pilotpip
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:10 am

There are air ambulance services out there that use model 58 Barons. The cargo door on the right side of those (and bonanzas for that matter) is more than large enough to get somebody on a stretcher through. They're much larger than a king air or citation.
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bond007
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:27 am

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 11):
is more than large enough to get somebody on a stretcher through

No doubt ... but I wasn't questioning that. Presumably with seat(s) removed.

Not sure about being larger than a King Air or Citation. I believe the Baron and Bonanza doors are the same size ... about a foot shorter both dimensions than a King Air (52 x 52).

Jimbo
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CanadianNorth
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:44 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 1):
There isn't even enough room to get a pax on a stretcher in an airliner is there?

I've only seen a strecher patient come off an aircraft once (we were on the bridge waiting to board the aircraft and start grooming it), but the way they did it was parked the stretcher just outside the door on the bridge, put the passenger in a highback wheelchair, rolled him out the door and onto the bridge, and then carefully transfered him to the strecher. It caused him a hell of alot of pain, but overall it seemed like a pretty efficient way of getting the job done.


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pilotpip
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:03 am

Jimbo,

Maybe you're referring to a kingair with a cargo door? Compared to the standard airstairs door, the rear door on the Baron/Bonanza is larger.

Nothing sucks worse than getting an incapacitated fat guy out of a citation or kingair without a modified door. Lears aren't fun but most of them have a wider door to begin with and there are a ton with an even wider, modified door. We got a lot of air ambulance flights at my FBO because of a very good transplant service, and proximity to four hospitals. Winters were the worst. Retirees would go have a heart attack in Vegas or on a cruise and have to get home somehow.
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jkudall
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:21 pm

Having a background in both the airlines and EMS I can definitely say stretchers will NOT fit down a standard aircraft aisle and in most instances would remain outside of the aircraft altogether. Ambulances do carry chairs which are primarily designed to remove patients from houses with a lot of stairs or apartment buildings w/o elevators or any other situation that would make it difficult or time consuming to use a stretcher.

However, airlines are required to have special chairs called aisle chairs readily available (usually they are found in a jetway or on the ramp) which are designed to move up and down the standard aircraft aisle. They are used to move immobile passengers (i.e. people who are wheelchair bound) to/from their seat but could also be used in an emergency situation and would be my preferred way of doing it unless it was a situation where it couldn't be used such as a spinal injury or cardiac arrest. Other options are to use a backboard or just carry the patient out of the aircraft to the stretcher.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:10 am

When I catered for Dobbs @ IAH a couple of centuries ago, one of our guys was pressed into service one time to assist with a flight that had diverted with a medical emergency. Pulled right up to the back galley door of a 722, lifted, rolled the pax off into the truck, lowered, and they picked her up for the last couple of feet to the ground, and then the ambulance. This was back in the days when aisle chairs were a rarity, and as I recall, the pax was on the large side (300 lbs+) to boot.

Looks like they also used a catering-type truck when JFK's body was returned to Andrews AFB...

http://kennedy-photos.blogspot.com/ Scroll about 1/4 of the way down....
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bwaflyer
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:18 am

Don't know if they're used much in the states, but normally when you are on a remote stand, wheelchair passengers are often brought out to the aircraft on a hi-lift truck, which rises up to the cabin door (just like a catering truck).
 
L-188
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RE: Medical Diversions: Getting The PAX Off

Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:02 am

Quoting Brenintw (Thread starter):
how do you get a passenger on a stretcher down those stairs?

You carry it.

Quoting Brenintw (Thread starter):
Could/would a scissor-lift (cargo loader) be used?

Sure, I have loaded strechers with a Forklift too, We used bins instead of carts for baggage so we put the guy and the accompaning EMT in one and lifted up to the door.

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 14):
Nothing sucks worse than getting an incapacitated fat guy out of a citation or kingair without a modified door

Try doing it with a Merlin. Damm narrow door. Once in a while we would be asked to trade out the Merlin for a Metro if it was available because in the Metro we had the medivac configuration was to remove the rear bulkhead and then load them through the big cargo door.

But I can also think of one case where we sent the plane down and then had to give the patient over to the USCG because the pt was too big for the aircraft. PT fit in the back end of a Herk though.
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