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Aeroflot777
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How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:46 am

This might seem like a dumb question, so my apologies if it is. How exactly does the aircraft get to the runway in this airport. Surely that little strip of concrete on the outside cannot be a taxi-way. Does the aircraft need to taxi on the runway and simply turn around???


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Aeroflot777
 
san747
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Thread starter):
Does the aircraft need to taxi on the runway and simply turn around???

Precisely.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
kl911
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:48 am

Yep.... look at pictures, photo's of SXM. It's the same. Get on the runway, turnaround and take off.

Like in Tenerife.... R.I.P.


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OceansWorld
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Thread starter):
Does the aircraft need to taxi on the runway and simply turn around???

Yes, and as you can see on the picture there are three places where the runway is larger to allow the aircraft to turn around for take off or to backtrack toward the apron.
 
Viscount724
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:00 am

Also LCY:


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jasp25
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:07 am

Many airports in the Philippines, i.e. ILO, CEB, DVO, BCD, ZAM has the same lay-out. Before taking off, airplanes taxi to the very end of the runway, make a 180-degree turn, and power-up for take off. Airports like that are pretty common.

-Jasp
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JoeCattoli
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:08 am

What's strange to me is that this Airport doesn't figure on the GreatCircleMapper..

Ciao
Joe
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:18 am

Thanks for all the quick replies guys! Much appreciated!

Aeroflot777
 
BoeingBoy
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:19 am

The exact same way the Plane in the picture is doing it.
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B6JFKH81
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:21 am

The common term for it is "back-taxi", and it also takes place at cities that do have taxiways but the aircraft are too large wingspan wise or engine configuration. For example, at FRG it is very common to have the 727's and 737's (charters) land and backtaxi to their FBO using runways instead of taxiways. It helps to not blow the C152's off the taxiway LOL!
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
Viscount724
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:05 am

Quoting JoeCattoli (Reply 6):
What's strange to me is that this Airport doesn't figure on the GreatCircleMapper..

Not sure why JZH isn't recognized. It is listed in various other airport code sites etc, although I cannot find the ICAO code, only the JZH IATA code. I believe it opened in 2003. It is very high, about 3500m (11200 ft) above sea level.
 
mattnrsa
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:17 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 2):
Like in Tenerife

I could be wrong, but I think Tenerife had taxiways, but they were being used to park all the planes that diverted there.
 
blueflyer
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:37 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
although I cannot find the ICAO code

ZUJZ (listed in several places, including the OP's picture)

[Edited 2007-08-16 01:41:01]
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Viscount724
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:56 am

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 12):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
although I cannot find the ICAO code

ZUJZ (listed in several places, including the OP's picture)

Thanks. I forgot the ICAO code was in the photo heading.
 
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EK413
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:14 am

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 9):
The common term for it is "back-taxi",

'Back Tracking' is the common term Big grin

EK413
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b752fanatic
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:16 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 14):
'Back Tracking' is the common term

EK413

Exact term, I believe they tend to not have taxiways in airport where traffic is minimal therefore the expense of creating a taxiway is unnecesary.
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flyf15
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:29 am

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 9):
The common term for it is "back-taxi",



Quoting EK413 (Reply 14):

'Back Tracking' is the common term Big grin

In the US, its called "back-taxi", "back-track" seems to be prevalent in other countries.
 
VTBDflyer
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:35 pm

Quoting Mattnrsa (Reply 11):

Quote:
I could be wrong, but I think Tenerife had taxiways, but they were being used to park all the planes that diverted there.

I believe that is correct on that occasion. They taxied via the runway until there was an open turnoff and took the taxiway if my memory serves me correctly. I'm not sure about normal ops.
VTBDflyer

[Edited 2007-08-16 14:36:48]

[Edited 2007-08-16 14:39:11]
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OHLHD
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:10 pm


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Sometimes the " end" of the runway is a bit wider in order to have the aircrafts turn around. Back tracking is widly seen around smaller airports.
 
buck3y3nut
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:15 pm

Some airports in India are also like this. BLR & GOI come to mind. This happened to me when I was sitting inside the plane  Smile
 
Max777geek
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:53 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 2):
Yep.... look at pictures, photo's of SXM. It's the same. Get on the runway, turnaround and take off.

How not to mention hometown of pesto, troffie and cheese focaccia, Genoa, in Italy :


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(only here we call it "the backtrack")
 
Feroze
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:58 pm

Quoting Buck3y3nut (Reply 19):
Some airports in India are also like this. BLR & GOI come to mind. This happened to me when I was sitting inside the plane

Add to that PNQ and CCU (19L)
 
flytweed
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:11 am

HVN is also this way - Departures from Rwy 02 require US's daily Dash-8 flights to back taxi down 02 and turn around before takeoffs when 02 is in use.
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:29 am

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 16):
In the US, its called "back-taxi", "back-track" seems to be prevalent in other countries.

I was wondering if I was wrong here, thank you for backing me up on this. I know I have had to do a go-around due to an aircraft doing a back-taxi more than once LOL! Interesting how the terms do differ based on the country though...I would think it would have a standard/uniform term.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
mk777
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:03 am

Quoting Buck3y3nut (Reply 19):
Some airports in India are also like this. BLR & GOI come to mind. This happened to me when I was sitting inside the plane



Quoting Feroze (Reply 21):
Add to that PNQ and CCU (19L)

In January, my AF flight to DEL was diverted to HYD Begumpet and when we were cleared to go back to DEL, we backtracked on the HYD rwy 9-27 for take off from rwy 27, so add HYD to that list as well  Smile
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LTU932
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:31 am

At SJO, if you want to depart from RW25, you exit through either Alpha or Alpha 1, backtrack RW25 and then turn around at the turning back right at the turning bay end of the runway. However sometimes CM aircraft backtrack RW07 and turn around at the very end of the runway. RW07 has no turning bay, because it is fully connected to the main taxiway Delta.

BTW: The runway at GOA has almost the same taxiway and turning bay configuration as SJO.
 
KAUSpilot
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:48 am

Most airports in Mexico, and I would venture to guess the rest of central america share a similair layout.
 
cityairline
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:24 am

Quoting Jasp25 (Reply 5):
Many airports in the Philippines, i.e. ILO, CEB

Not CEB.

Quoting Max777geek (Reply 20):

What is that "extra strip" out in the water running paralell with the runway? =)

//Alex
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Arcrftlvr
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:50 am

Without reading anything above, the plane would turn onto the active runway and then at the end, turn around for departure. This is called 'back-taxiing.'
 
BoeingBoy
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:21 am

Quoting ArcrftLvr (Reply 28):
Without reading anything above, the plane would turn onto the active runway and then at the end, turn around for departure. This is called 'back-taxiing.'

Maybe you should read some of the above - if he turns onto the ACTIVE why would he not just depart.
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Stealthz
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:45 am

Quoting BoeingBoy (Reply 29):
Maybe you should read some of the above - if he turns onto the ACTIVE why would he not just depart.


If you look at the photo in the thread starter... turning onto the middle of the ACTIVE may not allow enough distance for take off!

Quoting CityAirline (Reply 27):
What is that "extra strip" out in the water running paralell with the runway?

Looks to me like a breakwater to keep some of the Mediterranean tempests away from the airport.

Cheers

[Edited 2007-08-17 18:55:05]
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
BAE146QT
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:01 am

Quoting VTBDflyer (Reply 17):
I believe that is correct on that occasion. They taxied via the runway until there was an open turnoff and took the taxiway if my memory serves me correctly.

That's more or less correct, but they had actually been told what taxiway to take, then took the wrong one. There's a number of reasons for this, including fog, RT issues and good old fashioned human error while counting. But foremost to my mind was the fact that the taxiway they had been told to turn down was a 135 degree turn, (they would have to go back on themselves). They didn't believe that this could be correct, though later tests showed that the aircraft was fully capable of it.

It wouldn't have mattered, but if they'd taken the correct one, they might have been (just) out of the way at the time the KLM 747 passed them.

Quoting VTBDflyer (Reply 17):
I'm not sure about normal ops.

I don't believe that the airport sees commercial ops anymore. At least, not with aircraft that size - it probably still does corporates.

I'll be careful to say that I have never been there and all my information comes from the NTSB report and an interview with the Pan-Am First Officer.

[Edited 2007-08-17 19:03:38]
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xjramper
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:01 am

Quoting Max777geek (Reply 20):
How not to mention hometown of pesto, troffie and cheese focaccia, Genoa, in Italy :

Just need to let you know that there actually is a taxiway to the right of the runway, so you didn't need to mention Genoa  Wink

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 30):
Looks to me like a breakwater to keep some of the Mediterranean tempests away from the airport.

He was referring to the taxiway just mere meters from the runway  Smile

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Thread starter):
Does the aircraft need to taxi on the runway and simply turn around???

Yes. I am not going to beat a dead horse because your question was answered above. But there are variations to the way runways are designed for back taxi. The two mentioned above SXM and LCY are excellent examples of back taxi runways however, both of these runways have a little bit of a taxiway at the end so they can turn onto the runway easier (i suspect due to the amount of heavy metal that flies in there) instead of making a 747 do a 180...prolly saves on wear and tear of the runway.

In instances like your original question, the aircraft would simply back taxi down the runway and do a 180 and depart.

XJR
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Stealthz
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:57 am

Quoting CityAirline (Reply 27):
What is that "extra strip" out in the water running paralell with the runway?



Quoting XJRamper (Reply 32):
He was referring to the taxiway just mere meters from the runway

I may be verging on pedantic(it is early Sunday and I haven't had enough coffee yet) but no he wasn't!!

Quoting CityAirline (Reply 27):
What is that "extra strip" out in the water running paralell with the runway?

He clearly asked about the strip out in the water AND the reference to Genoa in this thread is certainly relevent as the taxiway does not extend to the end of the runway 29 (lower right of photo) and aircraft wishing to use full length would back track (back taxi) to the turning bay at the end.

Cheers
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Ceph
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:05 am

Tenerife has taxiways abut at the time of the incident, they were all blocked by diverted planes. The Pan- Am missed the taxiway they were supposed to turn off due to the fog.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:51 pm

Quoting Buck3y3nut (Reply 19):
Some airports in India are also like this. BLR & GOI come to mind. This happened to me when I was sitting inside the plane

At times its faster to reach an assigned bay by backtracking.Also depends on the other Aircraft around too.
regds
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aauzou
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:54 pm

Its called backtracking.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 2):
Yep.... look at pictures, photo's of SXM. It's the same. Get on the runway, turnaround and take off.

Like in Tenerife.... R.I.P.

You dont have to taxi down the runway at Tenerife, they have a parallel taxiway, just on that day there was more traffic, and heavier traffic than the controller was used to


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Buyantukhaa
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 31):
I don't believe that the airport sees commercial ops anymore. At least, not with aircraft that size - it probably still does corporates.

It's still in use (although the majority of international traffic moved to the South airport after it opened) and yes, it sees aircraft that size, on a regular basis:


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Last year, IB got rid of its last 2 747-400s (I flew on them 2 weeks before that). They flew MAD-HAV (and possibly more) and increased utility by making another hop to TFN. They're now replaced by A340s.


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IB still flies to TFN as it's closer to the island's main city. TFS is more popular with tourists for being close to the beach resorts.
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Salukipilot
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:12 pm

Quoting Aauzou (Reply 36):
Its called backtracking.

...or Back-taxiing here in the US...
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LTU932
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:10 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 2):
Yep.... look at pictures, photo's of SXM. It's the same. Get on the runway, turnaround and take off.

Like in Tenerife.... R.I.P.

Backtracking is perfectly safe, so there's nothing to worry about. Like it was said, TFN's runways don't require backtracking but if there are special circumstances which require it of if it's requested, they can also backtrack the runway and bypass the main taxiway. I see it on occasion here at SJO, mostly with CM aircraft which sometimes are cleared to backtrack to RW07, do a 180 to line up at the end, and then takeoff instead of taxiing through taxiway Delta.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Do You Taxi To The Runway? (pic)

Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:30 pm

Quoting Salukipilot (Reply 38):
...or Back-taxiing here in the US...

Is it an official term in the US.

regds
MEL
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