LASoctoberB6
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A320 Flap Settings

Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:32 pm

after the pilot chooses (in the manual it says 1+F) which means that slats would be deployed with 1st setting of flaps. do the ailerons also tilt downwards a little when 1+F or more is selected?
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pilotboi
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:19 pm

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Thread starter):
do the ailerons also tilt downwards a little when 1+F or more is selected?

Not sure exactly what you mean. Ailerons should never BOTH 'tilt downward'. When one is down, the other should be up. This is what makes the airplane bank. Did you mean to say "do the FLAPS also tilt downwards" ?
 
n710ps
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:30 pm

Not true, aileron droop is a very common feature to many many airplanes at certain flap settings. I know for sure the airbus family is one of those aircraft groups that it is a feature of.
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tom775257
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:01 pm

On the A320, when flap is extended, the ailerons droop 5 degrees downwards.
 
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LTU932
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:33 pm

Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 1):
This is what makes the airplane bank.

In the traditional sense, that's correct, but nowadays, ailerons have become multifunctional. Aileron droop at certain flap settings are pretty common (hence why they may also becalled flaperons). Look at the 767 and 777 for example, as their inboard ailerons droop in a certain degree dependant on a particular flap setting. On the A340-500/-600, ailerons can even work as lift dumpers assisting the ground spoilers, since they extend upwards with the ground spoilers when the aircraft touches down and rolls out.

An aileron isn't just an aileron anymore on many aircraft.
 
SilverComet
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 1):
Ailerons should never BOTH 'tilt downward'

Never say never. Stick around here long enough and you'll soon realise you still have a lot to learn.

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Thread starter):
do the ailerons also tilt downwards a little when 1+F or more is selected?



Quoting A320 FCOM 1.27.10 'Flight Controls - Architecture':

The ailerons extend 5° down when the flaps are extended (aileron droop).

Straight from the horse's mouth.
 
n710ps
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:17 am

I have pics someplace that will show the narrow body Airbus and A-330 in various configs from my ceaseless non reving on days off and commuteing.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
pilotboi
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:19 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 4):
Aileron droop at certain flap settings are pretty common (hence why they may also becalled flaperons).

Well you learn something new every day. Is this an official term - flaperons? You europeans come up with the craziest things.  Silly
 
Mir
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 7):
You europeans come up with the craziest things.

It's not just Europeans, Boeing has flaperons on the 777 as well.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 7):
Is this an official term - flaperons? You europeans come up with the craziest things. Silly

It is indeed a real word. However IIRC it is used by Boeing. Airbus uses "drooping ailerons". Or is it the other way around?

Another fun multiunction surface term is elevon (elevator+aileron). As seen on many modern fighters such as the F/A-18 where the elevators also provide additional roll control.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
LASoctoberB6
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:14 am

i thought i was seeing things, but thanks for the answers.

Quoting SilverComet (Reply 5):
Straight from the horse's mouth.

you calling me a horse?  Smile
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pilotboi
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
It's not just Europeans, Boeing has flaperons on the 777 as well.

Well I'll be darn. The whole world has gone mad!  Silly

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
Another fun multiunction surface term is elevon (elevator+aileron).

Now that one I have heard of.  Smile
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:19 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
It is indeed a real word.

You could argue whether it is a real word or not. It is used by Boeing however, so that must give it some authority. Irregardless isn't a real word, but people still use it regardless.  Wink

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
Another fun multiunction surface term is elevon (elevator+aileron). As seen on many modern fighters such as the F/A-18 where the elevators also provide additional roll control.

Elevon is a much older word and usually refers to the controls on a delta. The differential all moving tail on the F-18, Tornado, Jaguar, etc. is more often called a taileron (equally as ugly as flaperon), rather than elevon.

The reason I don't like the term flaperon is that it implies they are primarily flaps, when in fact the opposite is the case. In comparison elevons function as elevators and ailerons in all phases of flight.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:50 am

Even more fun is making them up:
- Ruddgearvator - A combined rudder, landing gear and elevator.
- Flapevator - A combined flap and elevator. Delta wings only I guess.
- Propatder - A combined propeller, slat and rudder.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
pilotboi
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:51 pm

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 12):
The reason I don't like the term flaperon is that it implies they are primarily flaps, when in fact the opposite is the case. In comparison elevons function as elevators and ailerons in all phases of flight.

So let's call it an ailerap.  rotfl 
 
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LTU932
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:05 pm

Don't forget the word "spoileron".  Wink
 
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SEPilot
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:45 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 13):
- Propatder - A combined propeller, slat and rudder.

Can you give me an engineering drawing of that one?  rotfl 
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Viscount724
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:50 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 4):
Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 1):
This is what makes the airplane bank.

In the traditional sense, that's correct, but nowadays, ailerons have become multifunctional.

I believe the shrunken L1011-500 long range model (only 50 built) was one of the first, if not the very first, commercial aircraft with what Lockheed called "active ailerons" which both moved in the same direction to reduce loads on the wing (the -500's wingspan was about 10 ft. greater than earlier L1011 models).

See page 15 (page 13 of the PDF file) of the following Lockheed brochure (the "Extended Wing/Active Controls" section and related diagram).
http://www.tristar500.net/features/Technical_Profile.pdf
 
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LTU932
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:22 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17):
I believe the shrunken L1011-500 long range model (only 50 built) was one of the first, if not the very first, commercial aircraft with what Lockheed called "active ailerons" which both moved in the same direction to reduce loads on the wing (the -500's wingspan was about 10 ft. greater than earlier L1011 models).

Interesting. I didn't know of the Extended Wings/Active Controls feature on the 500. Previously I only knew of the 500's Direct Lift Control, which was also a state of the art feature.

The L-1011 was truely ahead of its time with those features. Too bad its commercial success (or lack thereof) didn't do it justice.
 
Ward86IND
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Thread starter):
after the pilot chooses (in the manual it says 1+F) which means that slats would be deployed with 1st setting of flaps. do the ailerons also tilt downwards a little when 1+F or more is selected?

I believe that when flaps 1 is selected under 210 kias, it is 1+F, over 210 kais, slats only.
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SilverComet
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:06 am

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 19):
I believe that when flaps 1 is selected under 210 kias, it is 1+F, over 210 kais, slats only

It depends. What you say applies only when you select the flaps lever from 2 to 1. When selecting from 0 to 1 the same logic applies but the threshold speed is 100kt.

Furthermore when in config 1+F, as speed increases beyond 210kt, the flap automatically retracts and you end up in config 1. This is to avoid exceeding VFE 1+F (= 215kt).
 
LASoctoberB6
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:07 am

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 19):

I believe that when flaps 1 is selected under 210 kias, it is 1+F, over 210 kais, slats only.

right. and do the slats retract automatically and the pilots are supposed to "pack-in" the flaps?
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Ward86IND
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:39 am

I think that as the plane accelerates through the F speed after a 1+F takeoff, and flaps up is selected, the flaps and slats retract simultaneously, assuming this speed is less than 210 kais. Maybe we could get SilverComet to confirm.
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Jetlagged
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 22):
I think that as the plane accelerates through the F speed after a 1+F takeoff, and flaps up is selected, the flaps and slats retract simultaneously, assuming this speed is less than 210 kais.

For a 1+F takeoff, the S speed will be displayed, not the F speed. If flaps up is selected with speed less than 215 kts, slats and flaps will retract at the same time.
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SilverComet
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:07 pm

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 22):
I think that as the plane accelerates through the F speed after a 1+F takeoff, and flaps up is selected, the flaps and slats retract simultaneously, assuming this speed is less than 210 kais

Correct, except

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 23):
For a 1+F takeoff, the S speed will be displayed, not the F speed

 checkmark 

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 23):
If flaps up is selected with speed less than 215 kts, slats and flaps will retract at the same time.

You probably meant 210kt.

Quoting SilverComet (Reply 20):
Furthermore when in config 1+F, as speed increases beyond 210kt, the flap automatically retracts and you end up in config 1. This is to avoid exceeding VFE 1+F (= 215kt).

Anything above 210kt (and flap lever in the '1' position) and you only have slats. Flaps have already been automatically retracted.

From the FCOM:

Big version: Width: 1392 Height: 646 File size: 59kb
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: A320 Flap Settings

Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:05 pm

Quoting SilverComet (Reply 24):
You probably meant 210kt.

I probably did  Wink
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