lmml 14/32
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:02 pm

Why don't the Blue Angels wear G-suits and masks?
 
bravogolf
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:09 pm

Restricts their movements too much.
 
JRadier
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:15 pm

Reason for not wearing G-suits seems to be the fact that the inflation of the legpart (don't know the correct word) might hit the stick, which is not something you want when you are flying that precise.

Apart from that it's probably has a show element as well.
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2H4
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:19 pm

Quoting LMML 14/32 (Thread starter):
Why don't the Blue Angels wear G-suits and masks?

It's because they're just that hardcore. Like Chuck Norris, only with afterburners.

2H4
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BAE146QT
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:49 pm

In addition to the above, a brief search tells me that most of their maneuvers don't exceed 4G or so.

A physically fit and correctly-trained person can repeatedly withstand that sort of force without augmentation.

I'm not speaking as an expert by any means, but formation displays take their dramatic effect from their precision in close proximity to one another.

Having said that, make no mistake that those gentlemen are athletes of the first water, at the top of their game. I certainly know what a continuous 4G feels like. It feels like your teeth want to come out of your head.



On a side note, you may be interested to know that forces in excess of 5G are not unheard of in Formula 1 - though obviously they are lateral, not vertical - and they have to rely on breathing exercises and clenching their butt jut like the Blue Angels do.
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chksix
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:56 pm

The solos 5&6 are pulling max g during their passes. Extra hardcore Big grin
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2H4
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:05 pm

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 4):
in Formula 1 - though obviously they are lateral, not vertical - and they have to rely on breathing exercises and clenching their butt jut like the Blue Angels do.

While I greatly respect F1 and the drivers, the effects of lateral Gs are nowhere near as pronounced as vertical Gs. 5 Lateral Gs is certainly no walk in the park, but at the same time, blood isn't getting sucked down out of your skull. All else being equal, vertical Gs will knock you unconscious long before lateral Gs will.

2H4
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BAE146QT
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:36 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 6):
While I greatly respect F1 and the drivers, the effects of lateral Gs are nowhere near as pronounced as vertical Gs

I knew I shouldn't have included that factiod, because it detracts from the rest of the post.

That's not a dig at you, because you make a good point. I was careful to emphasise that they were lateral forces and I know YOU know that, but I hoped that the message wouldn't be lost on the casual observer. Re-reading it says that it might be.

So there you are, folks - too many beans spoils the chili.  Wink


Incidentally, I originally included a quote from a F1 Reno flyer, (as opposed a to a warbird racer). He said;

"Four G?!?! Hell I'll trade them 4G in a heartbeat".

I thought it was a good comparison. Then I realised that the birds they fly pull 8G in every turn - and they don't wear G-suits either!
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2H4
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:38 pm

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 7):
So there you are, folks - too many beans spoils the chili.

Sorry about that....I like the chili, and certainly didn't mean to spoil it.  Smile

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 7):
Incidentally, I originally included a quote from a F1 Reno flyer, (as opposed a to a warbird racer). He said;

"Four G?!?! Hell I'll trade them 4G in a heartbeat".

That's a great quote.

2H4
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BAE146QT
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:03 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 8):
Sorry about that....I like the chili, and certainly didn't mean to spoil it.

Hell, no. Some writers get sniffy, some realise that positive criticism improves the writing. Me, appreciate the insight.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 8):
That's a great quote.

He was a really nice guy. Typical happy-to-talk, interesting, laid-back Yeager type (or at least the way I imagine General Yeager to be from his writings - I've never met him).

Funny enough, there's about dozen or so of y'all here that are like that.
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joness0154
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:20 pm

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 9):
He was a really nice guy. Typical happy-to-talk, interesting, laid-back Yeager type (or at least the way I imagine General Yeager to be from his writings - I've never met him).

Well Yeager is about as stuck up as they get. I lost more respect for him when he said the things he did regarding Crossfield.
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timz
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:38 pm

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 4):
forces in excess of 5G are not unheard of in Formula 1 - though obviously they are lateral, not vertical -

You're talking about F1 racing cars? With tires capable of exerting 5 g's laterally-- parallel to the pavement?
 
chksix
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:57 pm

They have a lot of downforce so high speed curves yield up to 5 g. Need strong neck muscles to drive F1.

[Edited 2007-11-03 13:57:57]
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AAR90
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:02 pm

Because they fly with full nose down trim (approx. 40 ft/lbs of forward force) on the stick and use their right leg to brace their right forearm. Stick movements are very slight using essentially just your wrist. If they were using an anti-g suit, the inflation would cause potential stick movement and possible multi-plane mishap. By not using anti-g suits, they remove the variables associated with the anti-g suit system: different inflation times, different quantity of inflation,different deflation rates, different lengths of time of inflation, etc., etc., etc. Simply put, it is MUCH MUCH SAFER to fly demonstrations & practices without the anti-g suits. Same reason given for not wearing an O2 mask during demonstrations/practices... it is one less variable that could cause a mishap.
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Stealthz
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:16 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 6):
All else being equal, vertical Gs will knock you unconscious long before lateral Gs will.

As the ChampCar series found on the high banking at Texas Int Speedway(I think) a few years back when the vert G forces produced by their speed in the turns caused a form of GLOC familiar to many in the fast jet community and the race was abandoned.

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2H4
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 14):
As the ChampCar series found on the high banking at Texas Int Speedway(I think) a few years back when the vert G forces produced by their speed in the turns caused a form of GLOC familiar to many in the fast jet community and the race was abandoned.

Interesting point. I didn't think of banked turns.

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timz
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:23 am

If you're doing 200 miles/hour, to get 5 g's you'd have to be curving around a circular arc of 535-foot radius. Is that what ChampCars or F1 do?

And such a turn would always be steeply banked, wouldn't it? Nowhere near 5 g's parallel to the pavement?
 
roseflyer
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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?

Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:57 pm

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 4):

In addition to the above, a brief search tells me that most of their maneuvers don't exceed 4G or so.

The higest G move made is 8Gs, which is a high speed horizontal pass where the imediately go to vertical and climb to 8,000ft. The number 5 and 6 pilots perform this move.

Also, 4G's is common on large roller coasters. It's about the max G load that any roller coaster will have.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Blue Angels

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:59 pm

Quoting Timz (Reply 11):

You're talking about F1 racing cars? With tires capable of exerting 5 g's laterally-- parallel to the pavement?



Quoting Timz (Reply 16):
And such a turn would always be steeply banked, wouldn't it? Nowhere near 5 g's parallel to the pavement?

F1 turns typically are not banked, or only very slightly. It IS 5 Gs parallel to the pavement. Downforce is enormous (two tons or so IIRC) and presses the car down very hard, enhancing grip. If they take a turn too slowly they would fly off the track since there would not be enough downforce to keep the tires planted.
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BAE146QT
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RE: Blue Angels

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:52 am

Quoting Timz:
You're talking about F1 racing cars? With tires capable of exerting 5 g's laterally-- parallel to the pavement?



Quoting Starlionblue:
F1 turns typically are not banked, or only very slightly. It IS 5 Gs parallel to the pavement.

Starlion is correct. A good example of a track where such high-G turns are common would be Suzuka. 6G is, apparently, not unheard of in turn 130-R.

But I've gone off-topic again!

Quoting RoseFlyer:
The higest G move made is 8Gs, which is a high speed horizontal pass where the imediately go to vertical and climb to 8,000ft. The number 5 and 6 pilots perform this move.

Thank you Rose. I had something like that in mind for the higher G manoeuvres, with 4G being about the limit at, say, the bottom of a normal loop.
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JRadier
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RE: Blue Angels

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:55 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 18):
If they take a turn too slowly they would fly off the track since there would not be enough downforce to keep the tires planted.

keep in mind that when your speed goes down the G-forces reduce as well.
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Emel
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RE: Blue Angels

Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:34 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 18):
F1 turns typically are not banked, or only very slightly. It IS 5 Gs parallel to the pavement. Downforce is enormous (two tons or so IIRC) and presses the car down very hard, enhancing grip. If they take a turn too slowly they would fly off the track since there would not be enough downforce to keep the tires planted.

Not quite correct, I'm glad to say.

If the car suddenly loses it's downforce during or approaching a turn, usually due to a breakage of the front wing or loss of the rear airofoil, the tyres would lose their cohesion with with the track surface.

However, the cars are set up to maintain a certain level of grip dependant on the race track, and it's all a matter of compromises; fast tracks (such as Monza in Italy) they run the cars in low downforce trim to maximise top speed performance, and at low speed circuits (like Monaco) where high speeds are not of great importance, they will set the car up with maximum downforce to maintain grip in the tight corners.

The cars can move along and negotiate corners almost on tick-over nowadays (modern engine technology), and the drivers do this nowadays (in Formula 1) to preserve fuel and pick up rubber from the track on the slowing down lap at the end of the race. This is to try to ensure the cars meet their minimum weight requirements during post-race scutineering and why you will never see a winning driver do doughnuts or burn-outs to celebrate - every gram or ounce is ultra critical.

Sorry for being off topic.

[Edited 2007-11-05 01:39:42]
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Blue Angels

Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:16 pm

Quoting JRadier (Reply 20):
keep in mind that when your speed goes down the G-forces reduce as well.

Sure, but AFAIK there's a "sweet spot" of sorts where slower equals going off the road and faster equals staying on the road.
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ftrguy
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RE: Blue Angels

Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:22 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 17):
The higest G move made is 8Gs

7.5 to be exact. That's the Hornet's limit and is limited by the FCS...

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