Sasha
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Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:55 am

Hi everyone,

I noticed this undoubtedly an eye-catching photo in the database with the nice props effect (and I have a thing for propellor-driven aircraft   ).


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Photo © Willem Honders



I wonder what stage of the flight would it be when the engines are running but the landing gear wheels are still blocked (right term: chocked (?) ). Always thought that they were removed prior to engine start due to obvious hazard to the ground staff and even noise... or would it have been just landed and parked and someone already managed to stick them in place?

What are the procedures for this and are there any hard-written rules about when it is safe to approach a powered turboprop aircraft?

P.S. Witnessed this summer, btw, how a Captain (four yellow stripes) was walking about the apron when the An-24RV I flew in stopped at its spot and as soon as engines' power was cut off and blades still spinning he came in under the right wing, dragged the electric cable of the ground supply and plugged into the right engine   ... minutes later an technicial showed up and his face showed an amusement when he saw someone already has done what he was probably about to do...

[Edited 2007-11-09 22:57:00]
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2H4
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting SashA (Thread starter):
blades still spinning he came in under the right wing, dragged the electric cable of the ground supply and plugged into the right engine

Reminds me of this shot:


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Photo © Dimitris - AirTeamImages



2H4
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T prop
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:21 am

Quoting SashA (Thread starter):
I wonder what stage of the flight would it be when the engines are running but the landing gear wheels are still blocked (right term: chocked (?) ).

It could be that it's not any stage of flight, maybe it's a maintenance run?
 
aviopic
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:25 am

This particular night we were not going anywhere as it was just a demo night.


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The above are all from the same event.

Even if we do go somewhere the chocks remain in place untill the checklist is completed and the sign to remove them is given by the captain.


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Sasha
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:00 am

Wow, amazing photos!

Thank you for clearing this up.  Smile
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Scooter01
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:10 am

Don't these chocks normally have long ropes attaced to them so that the person pulling them don't have to get so close to the "danger-area"?

Scooter01
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HAWK21M
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:41 am

Quoting SashA (Thread starter):
Always thought that they were removed prior to engine start due to obvious hazard to the ground staff and even noise.

Looks like a Ground run in progress.

Quoting SashA (Thread starter):
Witnessed this summer, btw, how a Captain (four yellow stripes) was walking about the apron when the An-24RV I flew in stopped at its spot and as soon as engines' power was cut off and blades still spinning he came in under the right wing, dragged the electric cable of the ground supply and plugged into the right engine ... minutes later an technicial showed up and his face showed an amusement when he saw someone already has done what he was probably about to do

You sure the Four striper was not an AME,out here AMEs have 4 stripes  Smile

regds
MEL
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pilotboi
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:51 pm

Quoting SashA (Thread starter):
Always thought that they were removed prior to engine start due to obvious hazard to the ground staff and even noise

When we get ready to let our CRJs go, they are parked so they can just turn and taxi out, but need engines running to do that. So we have them start both engines, but the nose wheels remained chocked. Someone waits down there for the "remove chocks" signal. Not exactly the same as giant props spinning out there - but it just gives another example of why chocks may need to be in place while starting engines.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:57 pm

2H4...

Nice paintjob on that King Air. Sure beats a boring white with _____ stripes scheme.

I notice it says "clean the laser," what are they talking about, a LiDAR platform aircraft?
 
aviopic
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:34 pm

Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 5):
Don't these chocks normally have long ropes attaced to them so that the person pulling them don't have to get so close to the "danger-area"?

No we don't use long ropes that would make things only more dangerous as they might end up in the props.
Personally I never kneel while removing them but that's everybody's own choice, a firm kick with the old boot works better in my opinion.

Quoting SashA (Thread starter):
I flew in stopped at its spot and as soon as engines' power was cut off and blades still spinning he came in under the right wing, dragged the electric cable of the ground supply and plugged into the right engine

We also have to remove the electrical power with the engines running.
Although we can start on battery power alone we never do if we don't have to, just to safe the battery.
The DC2 and 3 electrical power connector is almost in between the spinning props underneath the belly.
It's a bit scary the first time but after a couple of hunderd times it becomes quite normal although you are always very much aware of where you are and what you are doing.

With the Connie and the DC2 there is radio contact between flight and ground crew for the others we use common hand signals.
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2H4
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 8):
2H4...

Nice paintjob on that King Air. Sure beats a boring white with _____ stripes scheme.

Boy, I know what you mean. The white with _____ stripes scheme is the Eurowhite of general aviation.

I especially like the paint schemes on calibration aircraft. I'm not sure what specific purpose the paint schemes serve, but I like that the paint schemes are (presumably) dictated by technical needs as opposed to aesthetics:


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Photo © Propfreak
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Photo © Steve Williams




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Photo © Borut Smrdelj
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Photo © Den Pascoe




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Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner - WorldAirImages
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Photo © Carlos A. Morillo Doria



Some test aircraft have interesting paint schemes, too. The combination of low-viz grey with glossy, high-vis orange is one:


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Photo © Giovanni Verbeeck
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Photo © Bruno Dellière



Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 8):
I notice it says "clean the laser," what are they talking about, a LiDAR platform aircraft?

That King Air is operated by Flight Precision. They calibrate navaids and approach equipment. I assume the laser to which they're referring is used for this. Maybe ILS calibration?

2H4
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kbfispotter
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:29 pm

During ground mx runs on our Dash 8's we will cock the main gear just incase the brakes give. We only do this for low power runs, though.

Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 5):
Don't these chocks normally have long ropes attaced to them so that the person pulling them don't have to get so close to the "danger-area"?

Nope. I have done many leak checks on the engines of both the Dash 8-200 and the -400, and I must say, it is a mind numbing experience being just three feet from a "spinning club of death!" It is just a regular task we perform in our duties as an A&P mechanic.

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L-188
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:20 pm

Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 5):
Don't these chocks normally have long ropes attaced to them so that the person pulling them don't have to get so close to the "danger-area"?

Nope, besides the earlier mentioned FOD hazzard, it is also a tripping hazard.
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futurecaptain
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:29 pm

Quoting SashA (Thread starter):
are there any hard-written rules about when it is safe to approach a powered turboprop aircraft?

Don't get too close to the blades.

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N353SK
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:04 am

It happens more than you'd think. I have personally loaded bags onto a Beechcraft 1900D with both props running - the captain refused to shut down engine #1 because they were already late and thought he was doing me a favor by feathering the props.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting SashA (Thread starter):
What are the procedures for this and are there any hard-written rules about when it is safe to approach a powered turboprop aircraft?

The procedure would normally be don't approach the aircraft until the props have stopped spinning...it is extremely dangerous to be anywhere near an operating propeller.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 1):
Reminds me of this shot:

 Wow!

My boss from my lineboy days would have had my hide for that!

Once, I had to dive out of the prop arc. I had just chocked a Beechcraft D-17 Staggerwing, when the owner decided he wanted to be on the classic display ramp. The owner, BTW, was a captain for a major airline. While I was down pulling the chocks (right in the prop arc), I heard the starter turn, and immediately dove underneath the wing. Good thing. The %&*($^ captain almost turned me into lineboy sushi on the ramp! What happened to the word "Clear?"
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HAWK21M
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:46 am

Quoting N353SK (Reply 14):

Bad Decision.Errors chances are higher in a risky environment.
regds
MEL

[Edited 2007-11-11 19:47:19]
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
L-188
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting N353SK (Reply 14):
It happens more than you'd think. I have personally loaded bags onto a Beechcraft 1900D with both props running - the captain refused to shut down engine #1 because they were already late and thought he was doing me a favor by feathering the props.

Hot loads on the front pit of the Lockheed Electra where always spooky for me.

Airstarting #3 from the wing connection was also good too.
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Scooter01
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:07 pm

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 9):
No we don't use long ropes that would make things only more dangerous



Quoting L-188 (Reply 12):
Nope, besides the earlier mentioned FOD hazzard, it is also a tripping hazard.

I still learn something new every day... Who said you can't teach an old dog new tricks?  old 

I remember something like this from my younger days;

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Scooter01
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soon7x7
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting SashA (Thread starter):

Or simply an intended photo shoot w/ parking brake on...
Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 683 File size: 467kb


[Edited 2007-11-12 22:18:01]
 
pilotpip
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RE: Photo: Props Spinning, Landing Gear Still Blocked

Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:21 pm



Quoting SashA (Thread starter):
What are the procedures for this and are there any hard-written rules about when it is safe to approach a powered turboprop aircraft?

Don't walk in the prop arc. Best way to approach is to walk under the wing, that way you're certain you're away from the props.

Are there any pics of a metroliner with a GPU attached? The older ones were between the leading edge and the prop on the nacelle. Your hand is about a foot from it when you pull the plug.
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