f.pier
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Is Theorically Possible A Twin Engined A380?

Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:14 pm

A380 has 4 engines because at the time it was designed available engines weren't enough powerful to make a twin A380 possible.

Now do you think RR, GE, PW (or EA) can build a so powerful engine?
 
jutes85
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RE: Is Theorically Possible A Twin Engined A380?

Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:20 pm

I think that the aircraft was designed with 4 engines, meaning the wing might have to be re-designed, as well as CofG. I could be wrong though....
nothing
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Is Theorically Possible A Twin Engined A380?

Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:31 pm

Quoting F.pier (Thread starter):
Now do you think RR, GE, PW (or EA) can build a so powerful engine?

Total installed thrust on an A380 is about 280,000 lbs. Since it's a quad, that means the airplane actually needs 210,000 lbs of thrust to operate safely. That means you'd need a pair of 210,000 thrust engines if you wanted to make it a twin, or almost double the largest engine we've got today.

It's probably technically possible to do such a thing, but I'm pretty sure that nobody would want to. The investment would be enormous.

Quoting Jutes85 (Reply 1):
I think that the aircraft was designed with 4 engines, meaning the wing might have to be re-designed, as well as CofG. I could be wrong though....

I'm not sure about CG (depends where you put the struts) but it would definitely require a new wing, new fuel system, new vertical stabilizer, new flight control software, and new landing gear (much larger fan = more ground clearance required).

Tom.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Is Theorically Possible A Twin Engined A380?

Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:58 pm

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 2):
It's probably technically possible to do such a thing, but I'm pretty sure that nobody would want to. The investment would be enormous.

Indeed. Couple that with a very small market and your profit margins are non-existent.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
2H4
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RE: Is Theorically Possible A Twin Engined A380?

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:34 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 3):
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 2):
It's probably technically possible to do such a thing, but I'm pretty sure that nobody would want to. The investment would be enormous.

Indeed. Couple that with a very small market and your profit margins are non-existent.

Couple that with afterburners, however, and the coolness factor would be off the charts.

2H4
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tdscanuck
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RE: Is Theorically Possible A Twin Engined A380?

Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):

Couple that with afterburners, however, and the coolness factor would be off the charts.

That would be fantastic. Put a big red button on the panel for an engine-out condition to kick in the reheat, blow the windows out of the houses around the airfield...sweet.

The fire marshals at Boeing and Airbus are already having heart attacks just thinking about it...

Tom.
 
Mir
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RE: Is Theorically Possible A Twin Engined A380?

Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:29 am

A twin-engined airplane the size of the 380, yes (though not with today's engine technology), but the 380 is and always will be a quad. Far too much modification to deal with in order to fit two engines, and that's assuming they'd actually fit under the wings.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: Is Theorically Possible A Twin Engined A380?

Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting F.pier (Thread starter):
A380 has 4 engines because at the time it was designed available engines weren't enough powerful to make a twin A380 possible.

It is becoming clear that the A380 was designed with 4 engines not just for the reason you mention, but also to share engines with a smaller twin-engine plane, thus benefiting engine makers (bigger production runs to amortize the development), customers (fleet commonality and interchangeability across twins and quads), and Airbus (commonality as a selling point). At least that's my read of the tea leaves, come 2015 or so  Smile
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Is Theorically Possible A Twin Engined A380?

Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
Couple that with afterburners, however, and the coolness factor would be off the charts.

Lol!

BTW is this your new thing now, 2H4? One sentence posts and outta there?  Wink
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
2H4
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RE: Is Theorically Possible A Twin Engined A380?

Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:44 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 8):
BTW is this your new thing now, 2H4? One sentence posts and outta there?

Well hell, unless I've got a photo of a Tasmanian Aerospace TA-3 Machthrasher 9000 (mk.IV), I'm really not good for much beyond the odd one-liner.  Wink

2H4



P.S. - Yes, I'm aware of the irony of this post being one sentence long...
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737tdi
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RE: Is Theorically Possible A Twin Engined A380?

Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:27 am

No, not at this time.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Is Theorically Possible A Twin Engined A380?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:17 am

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 2):
Total installed thrust on an A380 is about 280,000 lbs. Since it's a quad, that means the airplane actually needs 210,000 lbs of thrust to operate safely

Could you explain the calculation Involved.

Trent 900 or GP-7200 would def be used for other Type Aircraft in the future.This would help in reducing Airline operator stores inventory in the long run.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Is Theorically Possible A Twin Engined A380?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:37 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 2):
Total installed thrust on an A380 is about 280,000 lbs. Since it's a quad, that means the airplane actually needs 210,000 lbs of thrust to operate safely

Could you explain the calculation Involved.

- A380-800 has 4 engines at 70k lb each = 280k lb total.
- Engine out requirements dictates that the aircraft shall be able to proceed with an engine failure at the worst possible moment (V1). There are other requirements but that's the big one. With one engine out available thrust is 3 x 70k lb = 210 k lb. In other words, the aircraft "needs" 210 k and has 70 k (one engine) as a "reserve".
- An engine failure on a twin leaves you with one engine, so that engine alone needs to propel the aircraft from an engine failure at V1. Since the theoretical aircraft ("twin 380-800) is the same, the thrust required is the same. So that one engine needs to produce 210 k lb. As before, one engine is the "reserve".
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Is Theorically Possible A Twin Engined A380?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 2):
Total installed thrust on an A380 is about 280,000 lbs. Since it's a quad, that means the airplane actually needs 210,000 lbs of thrust to operate safely

Could you explain the calculation Involved.

Exactly what Starlionblue said. Only he did it more eloquently, thanks!

Tom.
 
speedbird2263
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RE: Is Theorically Possible A Twin Engined A380?

Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:36 pm



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 12):

So by that calculation if the 77W were to be modified as a quad it would require each engine to have a thrust of 38,333 lbs. Interesting  scratchchin 

I.e 115,000lbs / 3 in an Engine Out assuming a quad design.
Straight'n Up 'N Fly Right Son ;)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Is Theorically Possible A Twin Engined A380?

Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting Speedbird2263 (Reply 14):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 12):

So by that calculation if the 77W were to be modified as a quad it would require each engine to have a thrust of 38,333 lbs. Interesting scratchchin

I.e 115,000lbs / 3 in an Engine Out assuming a quad design.

Indeed. Little hairdryers. This of course explains the 342/343.

Of course, planes are never quite optimized to that theoretical limit. IIRC there are some two engine out requirements for quads as well.

[Edited 2007-11-20 17:38:30]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Is Theorically Possible A Twin Engined A380?

Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:41 am



Quoting Speedbird2263 (Reply 14):

So by that calculation if the 77W were to be modified as a quad it would require each engine to have a thrust of 38,333 lbs. Interesting scratchchin

I.e 115,000lbs / 3 in an Engine Out assuming a quad design.

Correct. Only then it would be an A340-200/300.

Tom.

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