Boston92
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Quick Question On The AT-CTI Program (ATC)

Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:55 pm

If one were to hold a 4 year degree already, how long would it take to complete the CTI program? Also, when the FAA starts to accept ATC applications from the general public, would a Masters in Aerospace Engineering look a heluva lot better than a Bachelors in English? Would they even know?

My nephew is interested in becoming a controller and is a senior in HS. He is unsure if he wants to spend 4 years at one of the 13 schools with the CTI program. Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
RyDawg82
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RE: Quick Question On The AT-CTI Program (ATC)

Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:33 am

Hey there,

Hard to say on exactly how long a program would take with an existing degree and credits. Many universities offer a 2 year associates program. This fall, the FAA announced the addition of several more CTI schools - with additional schools possibly being named in early 2008.

As a CTI graduate, I am grateful for the knowledge I came out with. I felt quite prepared to enter the career field and actually *learn* beyond the basics. While the off-the-street (commonly seen on bulletin boards as OTS) hiring is gaining strength, I would hate to think of trying to take on all that knowledge (no mater what level of aviation background) in the 4-6 month program. Also, in this day in age who wouldn't want to at least have a 2 or 4 year degree in aviation. Sure you might be able to hire OTS, but earning that degree will give you a great foundation.

Currently CTI students will spend the following time at the FAA academy depending on which facility they are going to:
En Route 3 months
Tower 7-8 weeks (May return for Radar Training depending on facility type)
Radar Aprox. 2 months

I believe OTS hires will come to the academy for AT Basics for 2-3 months before starting their specialty training. I could be wrong on the OTS number, someone feel free to correct me.

Many people will insist that "their" CTI school was the best. I can only speak on my experience and what I have seen and heard. I will direct you to some links below, feel free to have a look. The important thing to remember, don't get caught up in the negativity. Sure the senior controllers have their issues with FAA, I feel in time those will possibly work themselves out. Too often on the bulletin boards, you will see people not even hired into the FAA spewing hate, complete with this utter sense of entitlement. Air Traffic Control isn't without issues; however, its fun, its aviation, and one should be in the job because they want to be. Again, I speak that as advice to prospective controller. Labor issues and rights within ATC, for existing controllers, is a whole other topic.

Links:
Information about the FAA's CTI program (and OTS information)
List of the 23 CTI schools
University of Alaska's website (Yes, there is a lot of bias towards this one  Smile )
ATCCTI bulletin boards (Watch out of some negativity at times, but great information otherwise)

Hope this helps and feel free to PM me with other questions,
Ryan
 
Boston92
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RE: Quick Question On The AT-CTI Program (ATC)

Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:50 am

Thanks a lot Ryan

For some reason, I missed ASU when looking at the list of schools. About 3 years ago, I made the decision to not take ATC as my career, and there are a lot of "what-if's" in my mind. But I enjoy what I do. Now that my nephew has made the choice to attempt to become a controller, I want to be involved in the process as much as I can. There really are not too much choice for schools out west. ASU seems pretty prime of a school.

Now, you don't have to disclose where exactly you work, but I would like to know if you are in the tower for tower and ground ops, or if you are in an enroute center.

Also, what were some of the basic education classes you took in the CTI program that could be transferred from any college (i.e english and math, etc...)?
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
RyDawg82
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RE: Quick Question On The AT-CTI Program (ATC)

Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:42 am

Howdy,

ASU (Arizona) was just selected as a CTI school this fall. I am not sure which state your nephew is in, but one this to keep in mind with the University of Alaska is that they participate in the WUE program. UAA allows students from certain states to attend at substantially discounted tuition rates (slightly higher that in-state rates). UAA was one of the original CTI schools, and has actually been teaching ATC since the late 70s if I recall right. Their tower simulators are top notch, and closely imitate what is found at the FAA academy. I highly recommend checking out several schools before making a final selection, just don't be quick to rule out the 49th state when looking west.

As far as GER classes that *might* transfer in:

ENGL 111 Methods of Written Communication (Basic English)
ENGL 212 Technical Writing (or similar)
COMM 235 Small Group Communications (or Basic Public Speaking)
+ 2 GER electives (I took Psych. and Soc.)
Additionally, I believe a math class of some sorts is required.

This is for the 2 year associates program.
For the full sequence of required classes, at least at UAA, see the following PDFs:
2-year course outline
4-year course outline

Ryan

[Edited 2007-12-04 17:45:17]
 
Boston92
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RE: Quick Question On The AT-CTI Program (ATC)

Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:12 am

Thanks for the added info. UAA seems like it would be a great experience, Daniel Webster is located about 10 miles from where he (my nephew used to live) and with the exception of Mt SAC, ASU is the nearest one to him as of right now. So those three (UAA, DW, and ASU) seem to be the three he is looking at most seriously.

He has read the info you have gave and has great appreciation for it. Thanks. He also is asking when he would take the aptitude test, and what it is like (something to worry about)?

Thanks again.

-Boston92
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
P3Orion
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RE: Quick Question On The AT-CTI Program (ATC)

Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:18 am

Has your nephew thought about the Navy or Air Force for ATC?
I will have a Manhattan.
 
Boston92
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RE: Quick Question On The AT-CTI Program (ATC)

Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:12 am



Quoting P3Orion (Reply 5):
Has your nephew thought about the Navy or Air Force for ATC?

It has been a thought, but is not really the route that he wants to take. He has always had a love for the Air Force though, and talking with my (his too in a way) grandfather who was a Col. in the Air Force and flew P-38's in WWII. He could talk for hours with him sitting in the nursing home. But for some reason, he wanted to steer clear of a military route, and go with CTI.

Also, may I add, that when grandpa passed away, and had his ashes burried at Arlington, it was quite a site to see him get the "full" Military honors, same service as JFK had. They do a great job over there (Also the Reagan departures made it sound as if you had a fly-by every 3 minutes)!
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
jgarrido
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RE: Quick Question On The AT-CTI Program (ATC)

Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:54 pm



Quoting Boston92 (Reply 6):

It has been a thought, but is not really the route that he wants to take.

Obvious joining the military is a big commitment. One thing to look at though is he can spend 4 years going to school learning to be a controller or spend the better part of 4 years in the military being a controller. Whatever he decides to do, as long as he works hard he should succeed.
 
dinker225
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RE: Quick Question On The AT-CTI Program (ATC)

Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:50 pm

Having just been hired as an Air Traffic Controller I would definatly suggest going to a school with a good simulator. It makes a difference when you get hired. I attended the academy in Oklahoma not long ago and those that went to UAA, North Dakota, Embry Riddle or Beaver County were well ahead of the pack with the knowledge they aquired in school. Just my 2 cents. I'm very very happy that I went to a school with good simulators and a good curriculum.

Dinker
Two rules in aviation, don't hit anything and don't run out of gas, cause if you run out of gas yer gonna hit something.
 
Boston92
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RE: Quick Question On The AT-CTI Program (ATC)

Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:16 pm



Quoting Dinker225 (Reply 8):

The Daniel Webster website seems to show that they have a pretty neat simulator that is basically its own towerl; but I am not one to judge in this situation.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
joness0154
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RE: Quick Question On The AT-CTI Program (ATC)

Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:17 am



Quoting Dinker225 (Reply 8):


Having just been hired as an Air Traffic Controller I would definatly suggest going to a school with a good simulator. It makes a difference when you get hired. I attended the academy in Oklahoma not long ago and those that went to UAA, North Dakota, Embry Riddle or Beaver County were well ahead of the pack with the knowledge they aquired in school. Just my 2 cents. I'm very very happy that I went to a school with good simulators and a good curriculum.

Dinker

You all come out with the same thing in the end (a CTI recommendation), a 'simulator' is not necessary. You also pay extra money for the credits in those simulator classes. I have a bunch of buddies who have graduated from CTI schools with and without simulators and have heard it doesn't matter at the academy because everyone does the same thing there. I'm in the CTI program at a school without a simulator and it hasn't affected me one bit, although I got a better job offer than the FAA could ever offer me so I'm going a different route than ATC.

Also, you may want to let your nephew know that with 23+ CTI schools now, he may want to get his degree in something else besides air traffic control and get his CTI recommendation separately. It only takes 3 or so extra classes to get it. The market will be saturated with CTI grads shortly and if the FAA is able to hit the numbers they need he may be waiting a long time to get a call. He can also look at OTS hiring if he wants to get on soon.
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
atct
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RE: Quick Question On The AT-CTI Program (ATC)

Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:01 pm



Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 10):
I'm in the CTI program at a school without a simulator and it hasn't affected me one bit

I personally went to a school without a Simulator...We actually have a real tower. (Beaver). If you went through the simulator or through BVI Tower you will be much further ahead of everyone else, even at the academy. Instead of having to study for the first 4 weeks while I was in the classroom portion, I basically played video games at my appt and waited for the "sorta real" fun to begin. (I also say a sim never can come close to working a real pilot who's an idiot and does nothing what you say...well I guess the FAA sims do that to a point when it doesnt recognize your voice like it wouldnt do for me...).

Anywho Id recommend CCBC or UND for CTI schools. You'll be far ahead of the pack when you start at the academy and its anyones guess whether you'll be better at you facility.

Take care, keep the blue side up and green between.

ATCT
(ATC, 6th Busiest Tower in the World)
Trikes are for kids!
 
atct
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RE: Quick Question On The AT-CTI Program (ATC)

Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:42 am

Just replying to see if it'll reset to the top of the tech.ops forum since it did not with my last post.

ATCT
Trikes are for kids!
 
Boston92
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RE: Quick Question On The AT-CTI Program (ATC)

Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:08 am



Quoting ATCT (Reply 11):

Thanks.

I love how the Daniel Webster school advertises itself as being the best [CTI] school in New England, as it is the only one...but their simulator seemed pretty neat. It got me thinking (not that it matters all too much), but which school has the most state of the art simulator?
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
dinker225
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RE: Quick Question On The AT-CTI Program (ATC)

Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:03 am

Well Beaver County uses a real tower for their training so I would say they have the best "sim" Beyond that everybody seems to be getting updated sims around the same time. I know that UAA doesn't use voice recognition for their sims. This is a huge help as your not learning to control a computer. If the voice recognition doesn't like your voice your in big trouble.

Dinker
Two rules in aviation, don't hit anything and don't run out of gas, cause if you run out of gas yer gonna hit something.
 
portcolumbus
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RE: Quick Question On The AT-CTI Program (ATC)

Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:06 pm

I attended CCBC and feel getting to work live traffic in the tower was an invaluable experience. The curriculum left us well-prepared for the Academy. At my current facility, the Beaver grads have all done well.

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