FXfan
Topic Author
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Dispatcher Priviledges?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:59 am

Are dispatchers considered crew members? can they jumpseat on most airlines? if so, are they CASS approved?
 
airtran737
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:48 pm



Quoting FXfan (Thread starter):
Are dispatchers considered crew members?

No

Quoting FXfan (Thread starter):
can they jumpseat on most airlines?

Some airlines will allow dispatchers to jumpseat, there aren;t many though.

Quoting FXfan (Thread starter):
if so, are they CASS approved?

Depends on the airline. Our dispatchers (World Airways) are on the CASS System
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:01 pm



Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 1):
Some airlines will allow dispatchers to jumpseat, there aren;t many though.

It mainly depends on the jumpseat agreement negotiated between the airlines and pilots. At most airlines, dispatchers share the same list as the pilots, with exceptions noted. If you aren't in CASS, some airlines won't let you on. Period. At most others, though, if they have no way of verifying you, then it's an open seat in back at PIC descretion.
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EMBQA
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:49 pm

It's always been my understanding that yes, Dispatchers are considered 'crew members' in the eye of the FAA as they are required as part of the process. You only need three things to fly part 121... Pilots, Mechanics, Dispatchers. Also, Dispatchers are only allowed to cockpit jumpseat when they are on their recurrent training. I know this thread will open the door again to the whole 'who's allowed'.. but all that really comes down to this...

1) Above all... the Capt must say yes... (even if all requirments are met, the Capt can still say no)
2) You must be on a VERY small list that even allows you to be in the cockpit in flight...
3) You must have a need / reason to be there....(no free or joy rides)
4) In most all cases, there can not be an open seat out back...
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
airtran737
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:03 pm



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 3):
Dispatchers are only allowed to cockpit jumpseat when they are on their recurrent training. I know this thread will open the door again to the whole 'who's allowed'.. but all that really comes down to this...

If you are in the CASS system then you can sit in the cockpit. Dispatchers sit in offline cockpits all the time.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:45 pm



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 3):
Dispatchers are only allowed to cockpit jumpseat when they are on their recurrent training.

3) You must have a need / reason to be there....(no free or joy rides)

That depends on the carrier, and the management philosophy.

Some are anal and only want you to do your required and nothing more. (The only one I can think of that use this one are owned by, or are related to, an airline whose first initial is A, and last initial is A.)

Some want you up there whenever you can, but only want you to log the hours you need. (Majors, regionals, and cargo airlines.)

Many fall somewhere in-between.
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EMBQA
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:18 pm



Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 5):
That depends on the carrier, and the management philosophy.

The FAR is pretty clear on this one. You need to be there for a reason.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:54 pm

To quote the whole regulation:

§ 121.547 Admission to flight deck.

(a) No person may admit any person to the flight deck of an aircraft unless the person being admitted is--

(1) A crewmember;

(2) An FAA air carrier inspector, a DOD commercial air carrier evaluator, or an authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board, who is performing official duties;

(3) Any person who--

(i) Has permission of the pilot in command, an appropriate management official of the part 119 certificate holder, and the Administrator; and

(ii) Is an employee of--

(A) The United States, or

(B) A part 119 certificate holder and whose duties are such that admission to the flightdeck is necessary or advantageous for safe operation; or

(C) An aeronautical enterprise certificated by the Administrator and whose duties are such that admission to the flightdeck is necessary or advantageous for safe operation.

(4) Any person who has the permission of the pilot in command, an appropriate management official of the part 119 certificate holder and the Administrator. Paragraph (a)(2) of this section does not limit the emergency authority of the pilot in command to exclude any person from the flightdeck in the interests of safety.

(b) For the purposes of paragraph (a)(3) of this section, employees of the United States who deal responsibly with matters relating to safety and employees of the certificate holder whose efficiency would be increased by familiarity with flight conditions, may be admitted by the certificate holder. However, the certificate holder may not admit employees of traffic, sales, or other departments that are not directly related to flight operations, unless they are eligible under paragraph (a)(4) of this section.

(c) No person may admit any person to the flight deck unless there is a seat available for his use in the passenger compartment, except--

(1) An FAA air carrier inspector, a DOD commercial air carrier evaluator, or authorized representative of the Administrator or National Transportation Safety Board who is checking or observing flight operations;

(2) An air traffic controller who is authorized by the Administrator to observe ATC procedures;

(3) A certificated airman employed by the certificate holder whose duties require an airman certificate;

(4) A certificated airman employed by another part 119 certificate holder whose duties with that part 119 certificate holder require an airman certificate and who is authorized by the part 119 certificate holder operating the aircraft to make specific trips over a route;

(5) An employee of the part 119 certificate holder operating the aircraft whose duty is directly related to the conduct or planning of flight operations or the in-flight monitoring of aircraft equipment or operating procedures, if his presence on the flightdeck is necessary to perform his duties and he has been authorized in writing by a responsible supervisor, listed in the Operations Manual as having that authority; and

(6) A technical representative of the manufacturer of the aircraft or its components whose duties are directly related to the in-flight monitoring of aircraft equipment or operating procedures, if his presence on the flightdeck is necessary to perform his duties and he has been authorized in writing by the Administrator and by a responsible supervisor of the operations department of the part 119 certificate holder, listed in the Operations Manual as having that authority.

---------------------------------------------------

See the italicized section of (b)(5). Further, the OpSpecs clearly spell out how the carrier may conduct its operation, and the FOM further clarifies that, and in the case of the OpSpecs and FOM I use, the VP of flight ops makes the decisions that effect the FOM. According to the FOM, approved by the FAA, he has placed no restrictions on dispatchers, allowing us to jumpseat when we want to, and where we want to (with PIC approval,) regardless of whether a seat is open in the back or not; No limitations. I've seen that several of the majors are the same way. If your airline does not do this, then sucks for you, but don't preach it as gospel truth.

Furthermore, if the letter of the law were followed as you have interpreted it, then no one would be commuting. Pilots could not hitch a ride in the jump seat to their base, and dispatchers could not fulfill their job description if flights were oversold and overweight, leading them to disqualification.
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OPNLguy
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:27 pm



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
The FAR is pretty clear on this one. You need to be there for a reason.

My reason is usually that I showed up and wanted the seat... I've yet to run into the Reason Police....  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
737tdi
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:34 am

I believe if a person meets the requirements of the applicable FAR, it then comes down to the policy of the operator... As OPNLguy said, no reason is required, if the jumpseat is open and I request it, I have always been allowed although I'm a mechanic not a dispatcher.

737tdi
 
stratosphere
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:25 am



Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 4):
If you are in the CASS system then you can sit in the cockpit. Dispatchers sit in offline cockpits all the time.

Don't know about other airlines but at NW after 9/11. If you are offline CASS or not jumpseaters dispatcher or even pilots have to take an open seat in the cabin with the exception of airlink pilots who I believe are still allowed in the cockpit only after all cabin seats are taken.
 
dispatcher
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:34 am



Quoting FXfan (Thread starter):
Are dispatchers considered crew members?

At my employer were are considered 'Additional Crew Members' when on a required or elective familiarization ride and listed on the flight release as ACM's not jumpseaters.

Quoting FXfan (Thread starter):
can they jumpseat on most airlines?

Yes we can.

Quoting FXfan (Thread starter):
if so, are they CASS approved?

Unfortunately, we are not. Hopefully will change soon.
 
JayDub
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:11 pm



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 8):
My reason is usually that I showed up and wanted the seat...

Ditto...lately, if it weren't for the good folks at WN, DL, and UA allowing my company's dispatchers on the flight deck when no other seat is available...I would still be stuck at an airport somewhere ("CASS Saved My Ass"). Also, as a believer in non-rev karma...if I am higher priority than someone else on the non-rev list, but my taking the flight deck jumpseat will keep someone from being left behind, you better believe I will take that seat up front to help my fellow non-rev.

When anyone is on the jumpseat...be it a pilot, dispatcher, mechanic, FAA, company exec, etc...they ARE considered an additional crew member, no matter what company they are with, and can be called upon to take on any tasks the captain may deem necessary.

As a common courtesy, even when riding in the cabin, I always check in with the flight deck to let them know I'm there and to thank them for the ride. On more than one occasion, I have been asked if I would rather ride up front. Some pilots just like the conversation...and they know dispatchers tend to know the most current company/industry rumours and gossip.  Smile
"Travel is only glamorous in retrospect." - Paul Theroux
 
dispatchguy
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:40 pm

Quoting JayDub (Reply 12):
Some pilots just like the conversation...and they know dispatchers tend to know the most current company/industry rumours and gossip.

And, more importantly, that brat in 9B wont be kicking the back of your seat for the entire flight!

[Edited 2007-12-08 12:43:36]
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JayDub
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:27 pm



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 10):

I know this is taking the thread a little off topic, but....

The general rule for our dispatchers is to stay away from Red Tails and nAAzis when it comes to hitching a ride via jumpseat agreement.

Don't know how true it is, but the story here has always been that one of our dispatchers jumpseated on AA a few years ago and was more than welcome according to the captain. Our pilots have a jumpseat agreement with AA and usually we piggyback on those agreements. However, a couple weeks later, apparently our JS Coordinator received a letter stating that, if another one of our dispatchers tries to jumpseat on AA, they would cancel the pilot agreement.

They should all be like WN. So easy. Walk up, ask to hitch a ride per agreement, fill out jumpseat card, show passport if CASS check is needed, introduce self to captain and request a ride....and done. I've never been grilled about why I can't get a ride with my own airline or been given the silent treatment enroute with WN crews.
"Travel is only glamorous in retrospect." - Paul Theroux
 
dispatchguy
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:20 pm

Quoting JayDub (Reply 14):
Don't know how true it is, but the story here has always been that one of our dispatchers jumpseated on AA a few years ago and was more than welcome according to the captain. Our pilots have a jumpseat agreement with AA and usually we piggyback on those agreements. However, a couple weeks later, apparently our JS Coordinator received a letter stating that, if another one of our dispatchers tries to jumpseat on AA, they would cancel the pilot agreement.

I would concur.

Several years ago, I dispatched for AAEagle in DFW. Was trying to get on one of the hundred or so it seems Maddogs from ORD to DFW commuting to work.

Politely ask the agent for a 1W, agent gives me the BP, and I head down the jetway.

Politely ask the captain for a ride (back was full), and the captain proceeds to tell me that he doesnt carry Eagle, and to get off his airplane.

I politely tell him that I work our Caribbean operation, that our pilots cant steal APA jobs in the Caribbean, and to have a nice flight. I saunter over to the UA 330p Airbus, and the captain bends over backwards and gets me onboard, going so far to ask a fellow UA pilot to ride on pass so I can take the only OMC. I volunteered to pay his pass cost, but he said no.

I have had pilots call me in dispatch and ask if an Eagle dispatcher can ride jumpseat - and I always tell them "its your call captain, but I cant ride his airplane"

I love SWA and their open jumpseating policy - easiest airline to ride with, just have to ask for a seat in "first class" ATA was also great.

As for NWA, from what I understand, dispatcher jumpseating is all subject to the TWU, for the TWU local controls which airlines get on the NWA Dispatcher jumpseating list, and which dont. The NWA ALPA jumpseat list is pilots only at NWA.

[Edited 2007-12-09 07:23:44]
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OPNLguy
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:37 pm

Glad to have you all aboard at SWA...

NWA and AAL used to be bears, but AAL has gotten better in more recent years with several of my compatriots having used them. Haven't used NWA for awhile so I don't know if they've gotten any better, or are as previously described here.

Back when Piedmont was around, I went out to DFW to catch one of their flights and was down in ops getting my paperwork, when the captain came down. I introduced myself, and in addition to my SWA ID he wanted to see my dispatcher's license. (This was kind of odd in the pre-9/11 era). I showed it him and he apologized, saying he was just trying to be careful. He said that a few weeks earlier, and agent somewhere had run a last-minute jumpseater (FDX) down the jetway minutes before push. Full flight, they strapped him in up front and launched. Just after level-off, the captain struck up a conversation with "what equipment are you on" and came to find out that the FDX fellow drove a delivery truck and wasn't a pilot or dispatcher....  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
stratosphere
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:19 am



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 16):
Just after level-off, the captain struck up a conversation with "what equipment are you on" and came to find out that the FDX fellow drove a delivery truck and wasn't a pilot or dispatcher....

Funny you should mention that..I remember when I worked at NWA this was quite a few years ago well pre 9/11 and the same thing happened on an NWA flight in fact they had the cops meet the airplane I wonder if it was the same guy.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:15 am



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 3):
Dispatchers are only allowed to cockpit jumpseat when they are on their recurrent training.

How often do dispatchers need to do their checkrides? Does it depend on the airline?
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
sdf880
Posts: 83
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:46 am



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 18):

US FAR requires once a year with 5 hours observing time which can be reduced by one hour for each additional landing. My airline requires this plus if international dispatcher qualified then an international ride is required on an ETOPS flight. I cannot do my ride in the sim, I must go out on the line at least once a year. All of the airlines I have worked for followed this same policy.

rgds,

SDF880
 
dispatcher
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:22 am



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 16):
(FDX) down the jetway minutes before push. Full flight, they strapped him in up front and launched. Just after level-off, the captain struck up a conversation with "what equipment are you on" and came to find out that the FDX fellow drove a delivery truck and wasn't a pilot or dispatcher....

Wow, I love it when one person can make a whole company look like a bunch of goofs. I wonder what kind of friendly letter FDX got for that stunt. In a bit of a nod to the off chance he was simply confused, pre 9-11 he would have been sitting in the cockpit of one of FDX's jets as well and maybe he thought he had that privilidge everywhere he went. Not an excuse, and I'm sure he was probably a scammer anyway, but just a possible explanation. Of course I have heard of people with a valid airline ID and a dispatch license who don't work as dispatchers worming their way on to flights in the past. That was defineatly a bad call and if caught they should be terminated and prosecuted.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:56 pm



Quoting SDF880 (Reply 19):

So what do you guys do while doing your checkrides? Just sit in the cockpit listening in on ATC stuff?
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
dispatchguy
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:54 pm

Depends.

When I did a JS ride into ASE a few years back with a BAe146 operator, it was such an eye-opener as to how the mountains were almost on top of the field - it really changed the way I dispatched the ASE trips - much more conservative.

The captain of that flight was a check airman, and while the FO was flying the overhead visual, the captain was pointing out all of the celebs houses on the side of the mountain, the ski resorts and such. The familiarization tape I saw in training just didnt do it justice.

I can look at the Jepps and see how the traffic patterns are into a given airport, say ORD, but actually listening to the nonstop delivery of the approach controller while you are in the jumpseat, gives you a whole new appreciation.

Plus, for some types of operations, specific rides on that type of operation, whether ETOPS, a GPS-only nav legs, Long Range Ops, are required before you can dispatch that type of operation.

It's a nice way to get out of the office for a day or two. Get the gouge as to who the good captains are that you want to fly with (and the bad to avoid - there are those) figure out the operationally interesting airports are (short runways, nasty approaches, or busy hubs are fun), determine the actual requirements, and go fly  Smile
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Goldenshield
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:20 pm

When it comes to our annuals, a lot of cruise time is spent doing a Q&A type session. This way both sides can get a better picture as to why certain things are done.

Of course, there's always the crews that only want to talk about their personal lives.  banghead 
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dispatchguy
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:37 pm



Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 23):
Of course, there's always the crews that only want to talk about their personal lives.

Or pilot union BS...
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sdf880
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:07 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 21):
So what do you guys do while doing your checkrides? Just sit in the cockpit listening in on ATC stuff?

Depends on the crew. Most of them once up to cruise altitude talk about anything and everything. I just took my ride last month and I got a good systems review from the F/E, a little boring yes but good to review anyway. On my return flight the crew (different crew) didn't really say anything other than required talk so I did plug my headset into the radio and listened to ATC the entire flight.

SDF880
 
JayDub
Posts: 359
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:14 am

RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:38 am



Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 22):
Get the gouge as to who the good captains are that you want to fly with (and the bad to avoid - there are those) figure out the operationally interesting airports are (short runways, nasty approaches, or busy hubs are fun), determine the actual requirements, and go fly

This is exactly how a dispatcher should plan their yearly JS time. I always try to do my JS time into somewhere I haven't been before...and places that you need to see to understand. Therefore, I'm gonna try for ASE and ORD for my time this year.
"Travel is only glamorous in retrospect." - Paul Theroux
 
dispatcher
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:11 am

I seem to spend a lot of my time wondering if I should mention the ATC call they just missed while discussing the finer points of the latest contract.. Big grin
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:11 am



Quoting JayDub (Reply 26):
This is exactly how a dispatcher should plan their yearly JS time. I always try to do my JS time into somewhere I haven't been before...and places that you need to see to understand. Therefore, I'm gonna try for ASE and ORD for my time this year.

Personally, I always try to do rides so as to be in thunderstorms, fog, or winter conditions. Those are the "big three" weather headaches in a dispatcher's life, and seeing those from a crew's perspective is helpful to me. De-icing ops take on a whole new meaning when you actually sit through one. Shooting a Cat-IIIa down to 700 RVR and finding a runway end doesn't get any less amazing for me..  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
dispatcher
Posts: 238
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:55 am



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 28):
Personally, I always try to do rides so as to be in thunderstorms, fog, or winter conditions.

Just curious, how do you go about planning this? We generally book our flights through our jumpseat reservation system up to a week in advance making it a little difficult to predict inclement weather. Like you, I'd much rather go someplace where the weather is a little more interesting that A23. Since I'm not so familiar with passenger operations this might sound a bit naive, but on your fam rides do you just check the weather and walk onto the flight of you liking, or is there something you do in advance to prearrange / book the seat?
 
JayDub
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:33 pm



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 28):
Personally, I always try to do rides so as to be in thunderstorms, fog, or winter conditions. Those are the "big three" weather headaches in a dispatcher's life, and seeing those from a crew's perspective is helpful to me. De-icing ops take on a whole new meaning when you actually sit through one. Shooting a Cat-IIIa down to 700 RVR and finding a runway end doesn't get any less amazing for me..

We are CAT II, so nothing that spectacular, but I have been along for a ride where we shot down to CAT II mins in ATL. Definitely an eye opener. I've tried to find some rough WX rides, but it's hard to pull off with the weight restrictions on the Brozilla and the CRJ. It's possible on the 700/900, but finding the right flight on the right day can be tough.
"Travel is only glamorous in retrospect." - Paul Theroux
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:10 pm



Quoting Dispatcher (Reply 29):
but on your fam rides do you just check the weather and walk onto the flight of you liking, or is there something you do in advance to prearrange / book the seat?

We have a hotline to the Almighty, and I just ring Him up and custom order the weather I'm looking for....  Wink

Seriously, I just wait until the weather I desire occurs, and go out and ride. My recurrent training month is February, so fog and winter ops are usually no rare event, and being in Texas, TSRA aren't out of the question either.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:16 pm



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 31):
We have a hotline to the Almighty, and I just ring Him up and custom order the weather I'm looking for....

You worship Kavorous?
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dispatchguy
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:29 pm



Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 32):
You worship Kavorous?

Better than worshipping the great and all powerful Bornemann!

 Smile

Happy Festivus
Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:47 pm



Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 33):
Better than worshipping the great and all powerful Bornemann!

Well, as a whole, we could always be doing it hard-core command-line style, a la, Northwest.  Smile
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
JayDub
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:57 pm



Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 32):
You worship Kavorous?

All hail Meteorologix and their mighty RAMTAF.
"Travel is only glamorous in retrospect." - Paul Theroux
 
BWI757
Posts: 380
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:55 pm

Sorry to chime in late here, what is CASS? I can then say I learned something new today

Thanks

BWI757
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fxra
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RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:53 am

CASS is the multi airline indentification system thats in place to allow pilots and dispatchers from other airlines to ride in cockpit jumpseats on other carriers.

Just to chime in, I"m on my 4th airline gig, and the first tme I ever rode a cockpit jumpseat was back in the good old days when all Fedex employees could jumpseat. It was also my first Autolanding in BOS fog. Not that i knew any of this, I just new the crew seemed to be kind of along for the ride and i couldn't see the ground at the 100' callout. I was all of 20 years old.

At my previous employer, we did our fam rides based on where we felt like spending 4 days on the company. Our contract allowed for up to 4 days in hotels and per diem.. so we took advantage of it. As an ACMI carrier with mostly military flying, the options are limited. Though I have managed 4 days in Hawaii, CGN, KWI, BAH, and SNN. Not that the flights weren't informative and I did learned a good bit, the layovers were usually the driving factors.

I have yet to make it into that phase of training at my current carrier, but there is a much more structured fam ride policy. Though commuting home on weekends has provided lots of good observations.

On the personal/commuting jumpseating... I've always had no problems with DL, FL, the DL connection people, or WN. WN will see more of me in the near future (OPNL, if possible the friday before New Years can u delay 823 about 20 minutes in case get held up by TSA?) I have on occasion had to persuade the flight crews that, yes, dispatchers can jumpseat, this has decreased significantly since CASS though. The worst people to get by are TSA.

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 32):
You worship Kavorous?

Well, no, but our Met department does get occasional offerings
Visualize Whirled Peas
 
sdf880
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:13 am

RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:39 am



Quoting Dispatcher (Reply 27):
seem to spend a lot of my time wondering if I should mention the ATC call they just missed while discussing the finer points of the latest contract

I did that once after center called 3 times. The F/O on IOE turned and burned a hole right thru me. I'll never do that again unless we are about to make a crater.

SDF880
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:38 am



Quoting SDF880 (Reply 38):
I did that once after center called 3 times. The F/O on IOE turned and burned a hole right thru me. I'll never do that again unless we are about to make a crater.

Hell of an attitude for someone on IOE...  Yeah sure

At a former airline, I was jumping TOL-TPA, and on the climb through FL180 I noticed that nobody reset their altimeters. The CA was on one thing, the F/O on another, and the altitude alerter was set to something else. Going through about FL240, nobody had noticed, so I said "altimeter check" and the CA (PF) said "oops" and resolved the issue with the F/O.

I don't worry about holes being burned into me by a crewmember, I worry about being inside the smoking variety, and I don't hesitate to speak up well in advance. Most CAs encourage you to do so when you strap in, at least that's been my experience...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
sdf880
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:13 am

RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:01 am



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 39):
Hell of an attitude for someone on IOE...

I thought so too but the captain seemed cool.


[quote=OPNLguy,reply=39]I don't worry about holes being burned into me by a crewmember, I worry about being inside the smoking variety, and I don't hesitate to speak up well in advance. Most CAs encourage you to do so when you strap in, at least that's been my experience...

Ya you are right most of them do encourage you to point out anything wrong or traffic when they are looking for it. I have had a few times where the crew asked me to join in on ongoing MEL issues. Always glad to offer my 2 cents. I'm sure they may see XYZ MEL maybe once a year while we see it almost everyday.

SDF880
 
dispatcher
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 1999 12:05 pm

RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:14 am



Quoting SDF880 (Reply 38):
I did that once after center called 3 times. The F/O on IOE turned and burned a hole right thru me. I'll never do that again unless we are about to make a crater.

The couple times I've had it happen I've just innocently said "Were they talking to us?" at which point they've always caught the next call without any real comment. The most serious situation I've seen the crew was occupied with choosing a route to circumnavigate a thunderstorm at 12 o'clock and burned through our assigned altitude. I was pretty sure I had heard the call right but they had not reset autopilot to the assigned altitude and I wasn't positively sure we had climbed through it. Just about the time I decided I needed to say something, center saved the day with a 'XXX1611 confirm altitude, at which time everything in the cockpit got real light as we dove for the assigned. That was back before RVSM and we were only a couple of hundred feet above so it wasn't that big a deal to me. The most uncomfortable thing to happen was on a flight Europe to the States when we had just crossed over the channel into Great Britain and ATC cleared us to our oceanic crossing altitude (a descent from current altitude) at our discretion. The F.O., on his IOE (do I sense a trend here? Big grin ), and NOT the pilot flying, promptly reached over and spun the autopilot down the couple of thousand feet and set the descent. Captain looked at him and said "who's flying this jet?" It's amazing how small and quite an MD-11 cockpit can get. Very diplomatically the captain asked me if I would mind going to the back and loading every body's meals into the oven, I more than happily jumped up and spent a lot more time than required talking to the RFO and making sure the meals were set just right while the guys up front straightened things out amongst themselves. All in all a good trip though.
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:51 pm



Quoting Dispatcher (Reply 11):
At my employer were are considered 'Additional Crew Members' when on a required or elective familiarization ride and listed on the flight release as ACM's not jumpseaters.

I've had a couple of you guys on my J/S and we all had a great flight. Dispatchers get to see what really happens on a flight both good and bad and the crew can learn a few "behind the scenes" things that dispatchers do that may help them understand a little more of "the big picture". (not to mention great ACARS msgs!) You're welcome anytime.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:11 pm



Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 42):
I've had a couple of you guys on my J/S and we all had a great flight. Dispatchers get to see what really happens on a flight both good and bad and the crew can learn a few "behind the scenes" things that dispatchers do that may help them understand a little more of "the big picture". (not to mention great ACARS msgs!) You're welcome anytime.

Thanks for an enlightened and constructive attitude! You're also welcome to come sit with the dispatcher on his/her shift, and see what goes on from that vantage point--you'd be surprised and further enlightened....  Wink

Speaking of ACARS messages, I recently had a pilot call me on the phone and grill me on the reason(s) that he was getting an aircraft swap at the next stop. I was getting killed at the time by weather, and although I tried to answer his question and quickly get him off the phone so I could get back to the more pressing weather issues, he just couldn't/wouldn't let it go. I finally asked him if he'd ever seen the classic movie "Twelve O'Clock High". He said that he had, and I responded that the mission's bombing altitude was 9,000 feet and not 19,000 feet, and that he should just follow the field order since there wasn't enough time (for me or him) to take it apart and see what made it tick. I got him off the phone, and dealt with the weather issues. Later, once things had calmed down and he was enroute, I sent him an ACARS message FROM PINETREE TO THE 918TH explaining the multiple reasons for the aircraft swap, and he was happy. He called me from the next stop, and said that they were laughing so hard they could hardly talk to Center.

Of course, had I had another pilot (sitting in with me), he'd have seen something important in action...  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5005
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:35 pm



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 43):
I was getting killed at the time by weather, and although I tried to answer his question and quickly get him off the phone so I could get back to the more pressing weather issues, he just couldn't/wouldn't let it go.

I think there's a law on that one:

1) When everything is going your way, you will never get call.
2) When the situation gets to where you and everyone else is behind in their workload due to numerous phone calls, expect further phone calls from the flights you were just falling behind on.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:28 pm



Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 44):
I think there's a law on that one:

1) When everything is going your way, you will never get call.
2) When the situation gets to where you and everyone else is behind in their workload due to numerous phone calls, expect further phone calls from the flights you were just falling behind on.

There's another one...

3) When you initiate an ACARS message to update delay info and avoid a phone call, you'll get the phone call anyways just so the crew can hear the bad news from a human being "just to make sure".

Updated a PHL-bound crew last week when the GDP got revised downward and their EDCT got later. You'd think that CA would advise FO and ops agent, but no, I got separate phone calls from each wanting to "verify" the new EDCT (along with an "isn't there anything that you can do?")...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
sdf880
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:13 am

RE: Dispatcher Priviledges?

Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:55 pm



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 45):
Updated a PHL-bound crew last week when the GDP got revised downward and their EDCT got later. You'd think that CA would advise FO and ops agent, but no, I got separate phone calls from each wanting to "verify" the new EDCT (along with an "isn't there anything that you can do?")...

I really love it when in addition to the captain and F/O and even the F/E on the few classics we still have all calling me for the EDCT I sometimes get a call from the jumpseaters too! Wow- can I biggie size your catering too while I have you on the line- only .69 more cents.

Kidding! Always glad to help and give accurate information to the crews but they sure have a knack of calling when you are just getting killed on the desk.

SDF880

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