flynavy
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Rnav Capability

Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:01 pm

A recent thread here brought to light that WN opted to not have VNAV capability installed in their factory-delivered 73G fleet to aid in commonality with the classic birds. Southwest has stated they are seeking RNAV 0.3 RNP certification but in able to accomplish this they will have to retrofit all of their aircraft to get certified (RNAV approaches require an autopilot with VNAV/LNAV capability), correct? Anyone at WN care to chime in?

Anyway, I was curious as to what airlines have RNAV certification and the extent of thier RNAV uses. Delta is certified RNP 0.3 though we often go down to RNP 1.5.

--
Chris in ATL
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Rnav Capability

Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:34 pm



Quoting Flynavy (Thread starter):
RNP 0.3 though we often go down to RNP 1.5.

Don't you mean .15?

Quoting Flynavy (Thread starter):
Anyway, I was curious as to what airlines have RNAV certification and the extent of thier RNAV uses

I believe your question is one which is even broken down further by asking which airlines are flying RNAV (GPS)approachs? Which are flying RNAV (RNP) approaches? And, which are flying simply RNAV SID/STAR and enroute?

From the last question to the first, almost every airline with an RNAV equipped aircraft are using the SID/STAR and enroute capabilities, which is almost all of them with at least a majority of their fleet.

As for the RNAV (GPS) approach usage, Alaska, Continental for sure and have been for quite awhile. JetBlue, Air Tran, Delta, American, and Horizon I believe do fly the approaches to some extent.

The RNAV (RNP) for sure Alaska is certified and flying RNP stuff for some time.....Continental is certified with some of the fleet for Quito (B756 IIRC) and soon if not recently certified for the B73NG's and then B772. Each aircraft fleet type has a separate certification process that is followed. Not sure of where Delta or American are in the certification process, but Delta may have it for the B738's already.

As for as Southwest is concerned, when last check they were not flying any RNAV approaches.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
flynavy
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RE: Rnav Capability

Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:10 pm

Yes, .15 - my mistake. Thanks for the comments.
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
flynavy
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RE: Rnav Capability

Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:53 am

And to clarify, yes - I was referring to the RNAV (GPS) and RNAV (RNP) approaches. As for Delta, all of the 737-800s are certified.

[Edited 2007-12-17 20:12:30]
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
pilotpip
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RE: Rnav Capability

Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:30 am

How many airlines actually do RNAV approaches? In six months I've done exactly 1 non-precision approach and it wasn't an RNAV.

I could see this being much more useful for WN when flying RNAV SIDS and STARS.
DMI
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Rnav Capability

Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:42 pm



Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 4):
How many airlines actually do RNAV approaches?



Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 1):
As for the RNAV (GPS) approach usage, Alaska, Continental for sure and have been for quite awhile. JetBlue, Air Tran, Delta, American, and Horizon I believe do fly the approaches to some extent.

May be others and will attempt to gain knowledge to pass along.  Cool
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CosmicCruiser
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RE: Rnav Capability

Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:52 pm



Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 5):
May be others and will attempt to gain knowledge to pass along.

Fedex does and we have the RNAV(GPS)(RNP.3) to Subic but we now have an ILS(Fedex only) to both rnwys and rarely shoot the RNAV. It was always a good sim app because the G/S is 3.4 deg.
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Rnav Capability

Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:00 pm



Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 6):
we now have an ILS(Fedex only) to both rnwys and rarely shoot the RNAV. It was always a good sim app because the G/S is 3.4 deg.

The new RNAV (RNP) approaches are getting down near ILS CAT I mins with a slightly higher RVR, always good to have in the flight bag when the ILS's go down for whatever reason.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
wilco737
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RE: Rnav Capability

Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:15 pm

We at LH cargo are not approved for GPS (RNAV) approaches... We fly either ILS or non precision approaches... Dont ask me why we are not approved! We have 3 IRS and 2 GPS, should be sufficient for GPS (RNAV) approaches Big grin

WILCO737 (MD11F)
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IAHFLYR
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RE: Rnav Capability

Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:50 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 8):
Dont ask me why we are not approved! We have 3 IRS and 2 GPS, should be sufficient for GPS (RNAV) approaches

One would certainly think so! Are the LH pax crews RNAV approach qualified/trained?

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 5):
May be others and will attempt to gain knowledge to pass along.

Word on the street is Northwest within appropriate fleets are coming online with RNAV approach capability as United is in returning to the RNAV approach world which they abandoned after 9/11/01 with their A-busses.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
wilco737
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RE: Rnav Capability

Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:54 pm



Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 9):
One would certainly think so! Are the LH pax crews RNAV approach qualified/trained?

Yes, with the 737 we were allowed to fly GPS (RNAV) approaches and we did sometimes! I only did 2 in my whole life so far... So not too often! The other aircrafts are allowed as well... Only Cargo isnt... for whatever reason  Wink

WILCO737 (MD11F
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P.S.: this is my 1300th post Big grin Big grin *self gloss*
 
flyf15
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RE: Rnav Capability

Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:19 pm



Quoting Flynavy (Thread starter):
RNAV approaches require an autopilot with VNAV/LNAV capability), correct?

You do not have to have VNAV to fly RNAV approaches.... at least, to LNAV only minimums. Now, for RNP, I am not sure.. my airline is not certified for those.

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 4):
How many airlines actually do RNAV approaches?

I personally use them as my approach of choice if a Localizer type approach is not available. The CRJ flies them exceptionally well. I cannot say I use them very often... solely because an ILS is almost always available if we need to do an instrument approach. I have had a few instances where an ILS was unavailable and our ability to fly an RNAV approach was what made the difference between us making it in and diverting.

So, I would say, I fly one about once every 3 months. Flying one where it is the only option that is going to work... once a year?
 
pilotpip
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RE: Rnav Capability

Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:12 pm

We're approved for them too. I don't think we go anywhere that doesn't have ILS or LOC approaches including some non-towered airports. I'm sure there will be a time that I do one however the last time was in the sim. I always build the approach in the FMS simply to have the line show on the MFD for situational awareness and really flying one is no different than any other non precision.
DMI

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