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Faro
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Three Attempted Takeoffs?

Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:11 pm

Came across this passage in another thread:

"29 August 1998; Cubana Tupolev 154M; Quito, Equador: After two other attempted takeoffs, the aircraft crashed during its third takeoff attempt for a flight to Guayaquil. The aircraft came down in a neighborhood near the airport. All 14 crew members and 57 of the 76 passengers were killed. Ten persons on the ground were also killed."

I can understand attempted landings that result in go-arouunds; what on earth is an attempted takeoff? You either takeoff or you abort and head back to the stand; I don't understand.

Faro
The chalice not my son
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: Three Attempted Takeoffs?

Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:27 pm



Quoting Faro (Thread starter):
what on earth is an attempted takeoff? You either takeoff or you abort and head back to the stand; I don't understand.

Don't get too excited about wording from a press release. OK, he tried twice to T/O but rejected both times.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Three Attempted Takeoffs?

Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:31 pm

was each rejection followed by Mx action.what was the reason for the Earlier Two Rejects.

regds
MEL
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bhmbaglock
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RE: Three Attempted Takeoffs?

Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:09 am



Quoting Faro (Thread starter):
"29 August 1998; Cubana Tupolev 154M; Quito, Equador

When I saw the thread title, I was pretty sure this would be the crash involved.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 2):
was each rejection followed by Mx action.what was the reason for the Earlier Two Rejects.

A friend of mine in Quito who is very well connected and also qualified to have an opinion(comm. pilot, ex-USAF KC-135 navigator) told me that the problem was that the pilot did not have any flaps out. Absolutely shocking, but would certainly explain it and I have no reason to doubt him. Cubana is not a model of safety or good practices in any way.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Three Attempted Takeoffs?

Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:26 am



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 3):
the problem was that the pilot did not have any flaps out

Was this on all three attempts.
Wasn't there Mx Action performed.
and what about Warnings.
regds
MEL
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bhmbaglock
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RE: Three Attempted Takeoffs?

Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:02 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 4):
Was this on all three attempts.

As I understand it, yes. Although, thinking a little more about this, it may not have been zero flaps but instead an improper flap setting for the altitude at Quito.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 4):
Wasn't there Mx Action performed.

I was told, no.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 4):
and what about Warnings.

Don't know, but I believe this a/c normally carries a flight crew of 4 indicating little to no automation to me.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Three Attempted Takeoffs?

Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:52 pm



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 5):
Don't know, but I believe this a/c normally carries a flight crew of 4 indicating little to no automation to me.

I meant the T/O Warning.....Flaps not in T/O Range.

regds
MEL
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OV735
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RE: Three Attempted Takeoffs?

Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:42 pm



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 3):
A friend of mine in Quito who is very well connected and also qualified to have an opinion(comm. pilot, ex-USAF KC-135 navigator) told me that the problem was that the pilot did not have any flaps out. Absolutely shocking, but would certainly explain it and I have no reason to doubt him. Cubana is not a model of safety or good practices in any way.



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 5):
Don't know, but I believe this a/c normally carries a flight crew of 4 indicating little to no automation to me.

Advancing throttles to takeoff power with flaps set to 0 degrees (or any other necessary parameter not met) will trigger a loud alarm in the Tu-154 cockpit. Continuing takeoff with the alarm sounding is of course strictly forbidden.

Quito is quite high and hot, which is a somewhat uncomfortable situation for the Soloviev engines. According to a short accident description in Dmitriy Komissarov's book about the Tu-154, the accident aircraft had troubles starting the engines in the first place due to the rarified air at that altitude.
 
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Faro
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RE: Three Attempted Takeoffs?

Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:44 pm



Quoting OV735 (Reply 7):
Quito is quite high and hot, which is a somewhat uncomfortable situation for the Soloviev engines. According to a short accident description in Dmitriy Komissarov's book about the Tu-154, the accident aircraft had troubles starting the engines in the first place due to the rarified air at that altitude.

So I presume they had multiple engine start attempts, the last of which succeeded. They then took off, or attempted to take off. In that case it was not really a matter of mutliple attempted takeoffs but rather multiple attempted engine starts.

Faro
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9VSIO
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RE: Three Attempted Takeoffs?

Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:12 am



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
I meant the T/O Warning.....Flaps not in T/O Range.

Might have been in t/o range at sea-level...does the automated warning adjust with altitude?
Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Three Attempted Takeoffs?

Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:49 am



Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 9):
Might have been in t/o range at sea-level...does the automated warning adjust with altitude

No
But the conditions normally are:-
1.Parking Brake set.
2.Thrust levers Advanced.
3.Flaps not in T/O Range.
4.Stablizer not in Green Band.
5.Speed brakes not in down detent.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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