airfoilsguy
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Emergency Landing Times

Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:18 am

Quick and easy question for the pilots or anyone else in the know. Lets say I am at 35,000 in a 737 or similar aircraft, directly over a suitable airport with no traffic or weather. How long will it take me to get on the ground, stopped, with doors open for evac or ambulance transport?
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jhare
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RE: Emergency Landing Times

Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:34 am

That would depend on the emergency situation. The shortest time would most likely be 8-10mins, realistically however there is always traffic and weather conditions wherever you go, so it could take upto 10-15mins. A problem with the 737 however is that the pilot is unable to dump fuel, so it may have to circle for a while to burn off fuel, this could add on a considerable ammount of time,

Jordan
 
nathanr
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RE: Emergency Landing Times

Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:38 am



Quoting Jhare (Reply 1):
A problem with the 737 however is that the pilot is unable to dump fuel, so it may have to circle for a while to burn off fuel, this could add on a considerable ammount of time

Is burning fuel (if you cannot dump it) really necessary? You would think in an emergency that they would be the fastest they could be.
 
2H4
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RE: Emergency Landing Times

Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:45 am



Quoting Jhare (Reply 1):
A problem with the 737 however is that the pilot is unable to dump fuel, so it may have to circle for a while to burn off fuel, this could add on a considerable ammount of time,

Depending on the severity of the emergency, the risk of staying aloft could far exceed the risk of landing overweight.

2H4
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tdscanuck
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RE: Emergency Landing Times

Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:15 am



Quoting Jhare (Reply 1):
A problem with the 737 however is that the pilot is unable to dump fuel, so it may have to circle for a while to burn off fuel, this could add on a considerable ammount of time,

The 737 is completely capable of landing fully loaded. This is the only way you can get away without a fuel dump system in the first place.

Tom.
 
AAR90
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RE: Emergency Landing Times

Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:19 am



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Thread starter):
How long will it take me to get on the ground, stopped, with doors open for evac or ambulance transport?

Depends upon the scenario and what you are trying to accomplish. I flew (twice) a simulated terrorist threat to my 738 at FL410 overhead LAX (in simulators). Both times I had the plane stopped on the runway in less than 8 minutes (7:38 and 7:21) from time of notification. About as close to an answer to your question I can think of.
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pilotboi
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RE: Emergency Landing Times

Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:15 am



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 4):
The 737 is completely capable of landing fully loaded

Yes, but not every runway can handle that. I'm not trying to defend the other side of that discussion. I'm just making a reminder. Aircraft structure is not the only thing that needs consideration when worrying about weight.

Quoting NathanR (Reply 2):
Is burning fuel (if you cannot dump it) really necessary? You would think in an emergency that they would be the fastest they could be.

It depends on the situation. If it's not that needs immediate attention from someone/thing on the ground, then yes, it usually is necessary. But if you have someone with a heart attack, bomb threat, or fire in the cockpit, then no, it's not necessary, and you need to get on the ground ASAP. But also remember that if you have someone with a heart attack, and end up landing extremely overweight (let's say runway limiting, meaning the runway can't really handle your weight), then you may end up making the situation worse by damaging the runway and causing a crash, possibly harming more passengers. This is just one example, and is not meant to be picked on. :-P
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Emergency Landing Times

Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:29 am



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 6):

Yes, but not every runway can handle that.



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 6):
Aircraft structure is not the only thing that needs consideration when worrying about weight.

Both are moot points--the OP said "suitable airport" and I think AAR90 has answered the gent's question...
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EssentialPowr
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RE: Emergency Landing Times

Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:26 am

AAR90's answer is a good one. I guessed 8 to myself, and then read his. As was mentioned, landing weight issues are irrelevant when an emergency is declared, and all part 121 a/c are capable of landing at MGTOW by design and certification standards.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Emergency Landing Times

Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:01 am



Quoting Jhare (Reply 1):
A problem with the 737 however is that the pilot is unable to dump fuel, so it may have to circle for a while to burn off fuel, this could add on a considerable ammount of time,

If the Emergency is not as critical,an overweight Landing can be done on the B737.
regds
MEL
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airfoilsguy
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RE: Emergency Landing Times

Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:41 am



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 5):
About as close to an answer to your question I can think of.

That is exactly what I was looking for. In this scenario did you "break" anything? I.E. overweight landing necessitating inspection or could you theoretically put the plane back in service immediately?
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AAR90
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RE: Emergency Landing Times

Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:47 pm



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 10):
That is exactly what I was looking for. In this scenario did you "break" anything? I.E. overweight landing necessitating inspection or could you theoretically put the plane back in service immediately?

Anytime you land overweight requires on overweight inspection no matter how gentle you are with the plane. I know the brakes got heavy use and were probably "throw-aways" if it were for real. OTOH, the landing was very gentle.... lots of energy to bleed-off there.
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miamiair
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RE: Emergency Landing Times

Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:26 pm



Quoting Jhare (Reply 1):
problem with the 737 however is that the pilot is unable to dump fuel, so it may have to circle for a while to burn off fuel, this could add on a considerable ammount of time,

Remember Swiss Air 111?

The other consideration is if there is some sort of structural integrity issue. You do not want to come down like a ruptured duck.

I recall a guy who flew Caravelles. He said they can come down at 13K FPM. I am not sure about that one.
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EssentialPowr
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RE: Emergency Landing Times

Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:53 am



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 12):

The other consideration is if there is some sort of structural integrity issue. You do not want to come down like a ruptured duck.

Emergencies are considered heavily in part 121 certified a/c...they are designed to withstand multiple system failures. Aint that brilliant?
 
Jawed
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RE: Emergency Landing Times

Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:09 am

interesting.. what are the main steps to achieve such a quick landing? and at such a high rate of descent, at what angle to the ground is the plane descending?

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 5):
Depends upon the scenario and what you are trying to accomplish. I flew (twice) a simulated terrorist threat to my 738 at FL410 overhead LAX (in simulators). Both times I had the plane stopped on the runway in less than 8 minutes (7:38 and 7:21) from time of notification. About as close to an answer to your question I can think of.

 
AAR90
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RE: Emergency Landing Times

Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:22 am



Quoting Jawed (Reply 14):
what are the main steps to achieve such a quick landing? and at such a high rate of descent, at what angle to the ground is the plane descending?

Emergency Descent procedure and good eye-hand coordination as to energy management --idle glide all the way to the landing at max speed but still able to land/stop on the runway in minimum amount of time. First time I did it I simply surprised myself. Never would have guessed 8 minutes. Second time it became a challenge to do it in less time. Considering there was more than one minute spent on the ground (touchdown, stop, complete emergency evac checklist) plus slowdown requirements... I'd guess a 10,000fpm maximum descent rate would not be out of the question. I don't recall the deck angle --I was a bit busy at the time.  box 
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