Pihero
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A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:26 pm

Reading the posts on the thread about the Air Canada A319 incident, it became apparent to me that there is an appalling lack of awareness of the effects or dangers of turbulence both to aircrews and their passengers.
I then remembered that sometime ago, there was a very well made video which was part of a training package which aim was to promote some crew - cabin and cockpit - basic knowledge of the phenomenon and a reminder for some prevention, defense techniques.
I found that video, hidden in the middle of a totally unrelated site.
The video, titled A Little Bumpy Air" can be accessed by clicking on the hyperlink toward the bottom of the page, just above the *Gate to Gate* incrustation pic.
I'd be obliged to anyone managing to direct link the video.
It's a 26 min well-made film and it could well prevent some injuries if you spread it around.
After all, we're all in here for Flight Safety, too !
Go to a little bumpy air

Regards

[Edited 2008-01-14 14:27:39]
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Jamie757
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:10 pm



Quoting Pihero (Thread starter):
I'd be obliged to anyone managing to direct link the video.

http://videoontheweb.faa.gov/training/Little-Bumpy-Air-HS.asx

Try that.

 Smile

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Starlionblue
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:45 pm

Pihero, that video is a bit corny but very informative. Thanks.









The following are style notes. They don't detract from the usefulness of the film. I just found them fun:
- It is a bit "Rocky Horror Picture Show" with the narrator though.
- "Seatbelt sign. Some passengers... may be used to ignoring it in their own countries." Lol. As if Americans are so much better.

[Edited 2008-01-14 15:55:06]
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Pihero
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:10 am



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
It is a bit "Rocky Horror Picture Show"

The problem, Starlionblue, is that I have two bad experiences of severe turbulence, one on a DC-4 in a storm cell triggered by some local convection and one over Iran on a 744, in a shearing jetstream situation ; both at night.
Horror it is alright. I could testify.
Not very long ago, an A340 encountered some extreme turbulence over the Pyrenees, with some very serious injuries to both passengers and F/As...On two consecutive nights last year at the same point in the Gulf of Mexico two airplanes got in the same trap of moonless night flying over hidden hammerheads with dire consequences...
The sky sometimes should be treated as a mine field...
Cheers !
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Starlionblue
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:32 am



Quoting Pihero (Reply 3):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
It is a bit "Rocky Horror Picture Show"

The problem, Starlionblue, is that I have two bad experiences of severe turbulence, one on a DC-4 in a storm cell triggered by some local convection and one over Iran on a 744, in a shearing jetstream situation ; both at night.
Horror it is alright. I could testify.

You misunderstand. My comment was not reflecting on the subject matter. The narrator is a bit like the one in the movie "The Rocky Horror Picture Show", which is in fact not a horror film but a comedy/musical.

I do understand the seriousness of turbulence.
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Pihero
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:41 am

Sorry, friend, I didn't catch that one, because I haven't seen it.
My son thinks I'm chicken because I refuse to watch his horror movies with him, so my horror film culture is very poor ( think that the last film I saw was the "Vampires' ball" ! ) ..
Always nice to learn

and to talk to you.

Regards
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Starlionblue
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:47 am

I have always felt that pax who do not heed the seatbelt sign, or unbuckle when seated, are just subjecting themselves to a Darwinian selection process of their own making.

The F/As have a far riskier existence.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 5):
Sorry, friend, I didn't catch that one, because I haven't seen it.
My son thinks I'm chicken because I refuse to watch his horror movies with him, so my horror film culture is very poor ( think that the last film I saw was the "Vampires' ball" ! ) ..

***horrified gasp***. You haven't seen The Rocky Horror Picture show?!? Truly a cult classic of camp. Susan Sarandon as a slut and Tim Curry as a transvestite alien mad scientist. Meat Loaf doing a musical number on a motorcycle before being stabbed to death.

Anyway there's nothing much horror about it except the title and theme. It's hilarious, especially if you go in a movie theater the US. People dress up, re-enact the scenes, shout by now traditional comments to the actors, sing and dance along to the musical numbers. An odd and enjoyable bit of pop culture.

And the musical is great. "Let's do the time warp agaaaaaaaaaaain....."

And now we're waaaaay off topic.
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redflyer
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:23 am



Quoting Pihero (Thread starter):
it became apparent to me that there is an appalling lack of awareness of the effects or dangers of turbulence both to aircrews and their passengers.

I have a question for you since you're a pilot of mature years (I say that with the greatest respect as I - and most people - respect pilots who are senior in age and hours): in spite of the far greater number of flights and hours flown, does it not appear that turbulence related incidences have actually declined in recent years? I remember a dozen or more years ago when I would fly, maybe four or six times a year at most, that I would encounter good turbulence on at least half the flights (or so it seemed). Whereas these days, I fly a couple of times a month or more and rarely do I encounter turbulence of any kind. It seems turbulence events have been greatly diminished on commercial flights.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
I have always felt that pax who do not heed the seatbelt sign,

Maybe airlines should install a simple circuit in seatbelts that would at least indicate when seatbelts are buckled. While I don't expect it to report the "click" in real time so the flight attendants can admonish the passenger during the flight, at least it would tell if the passenger was buckled in when they should have been after an event, which would mitigate the airline's liability when those same s**theads, who didn't buckle-up when they should have, file a lawsuit.
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:37 am

The databases aren't public but; In the US, at least, it's only the public reporting that's decreased. The number of joint injuries (knee, ankle, wrist, hip, etc.) and contusions have actually increased slightly on a yearly average basis.

It's a result of the "nothing can hurt me" syndrome demonstrated by the "I want mine now" mentality flying public in the US.

Here's a good wannabe site that attracts a lot of monday morning quarterbacks and sofa experts
http://aviation-safety.net/index.php

In my past life I was always in awe of the self-imposed lack of knowledge of the flying public in general. There were and often still are passengers I'd like to spank for all their stupidity and arrogance.

Okay
I'm off the soapbox; Fire away

 Smile
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Starlionblue
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:15 am



Quoting Avioniker (Reply 8):
In my past life I was always in awe of the self-imposed lack of knowledge of the flying public in general. There were and often still are passengers I'd like to spank for all their stupidity and arrogance.

And you're not overawed now? I still am.  Wink

What really bugs me is people who claim to know something when they clearly don't. Here's a tip: If you don't know, shut the f*ck up or at least preface with "I'm not sure..."
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ThirtyEcho
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:08 am

warningwarningwarning:


Watch out ,folks, my security software found a virus in that video!
 
Pihero
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:58 am



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 7):
in spite of the far greater number of flights and hours flown, does it not appear that turbulence related incidences have actually declined in recent years?

Very basically, we have a very definite reduction in (thunder)-storms related turbulence because of the accuracy of modern airborne detection systems - radars, windshear detectors -, and I see the trend to keep on declining - the automatic vertical scan will help preventing the dangerous overfly of embedded cells...etc...but CAT related turbulence is definitely on the rise.
On the other hand, airplanes are flying higher, in generally smoother airflows than were usual only 15 years ago, so if encounters are less frequent, their severity has in fact increased due to complacency, diminishing airmanship (no blame here, it is very difficult to learn about something you seldom see}.
In the past two years, I've known of seven instances on European airlines, ending with injuries as serious as spinal.
That's the reason why I think the video should be spread in the public.

Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 10):
Watch out ,folks, my security software found a virus in that video!

Kaspersky hasn't found one in mine !
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Pihero
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:08 am



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
***horrified gasp***. You haven't seen The Rocky Horror Picture show?!?

I will try very soon to see that and be able to discuss cult monies !
 Silly
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Pihero
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:00 pm



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 7):
It seems turbulence events have been greatly diminished on commercial flights.



Quoting Avioniker (Reply 8):
The databases aren't public but; In the US, at least, it's only the public reporting that's decreased. The number of joint injuries (knee, ankle, wrist, hip, etc.) and contusions have actually increased slightly on a yearly average basis.



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
What really bugs me is people who claim to know something when they clearly don't.

As I've got some time on my computer, being on stand-by, this is a site that lists known events. France, among a lot of other countries is not part of the list, but it is still an impressive compilation of turbulence-related incident / accidents.
FSS-turbulence-events
Unfortunately, you'll only get the basics, the gist of these reports being sold on a DVD. But I think that's just enough for us on this forum...One can always x-refe it with one of the accident data bases.
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Starlionblue
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:13 pm



Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 10):
warningwarningwarning:

Watch out ,folks, my security software found a virus in that video!

Are you sure it didn't just warn of running potentially dangerous content? .asx is a redirector extension to .asf, meaning that the file you download in turn points to online content and runs it. This is a potential security hole but since you trust the file you're fine in this case.

What AV software do you use? For the record Avast didn't have an issue.
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EIDAA
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:06 pm

Pihero, thanks for sharing that video with us!

I don't mean to take the thread off topic, but could anyone give a quick explanation of jetstream shear? Is this a situation that arises as you enter and exit a jetstream? Is it a relatively sudden increase/decrease in wind-speed that causes the disturbance?

Secondly, what is a typical "turbulence penetration speed" for an aircraft? Let's say for example an A330 cruising at M0.81/82 hits rough air, what sort of speed is used?

Sorry for the layman questions... but if you can't ask them in tech/ops and get a good answer, where can you?

Thanks
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Pihero
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:47 am



Quoting EIDAA (Reply 15):
a quick explanation of jetstream shear? Is this a situation that arises as you enter and exit a jetstream? Is it a relatively sudden increase/decrease in wind-speed that causes the disturbance?

A shear is a rapid change in the speed and / or direction of the present wind. We refer to jetstream shears when in fact we are seeing changes a convergence / divergence of the airflow.
Exiting a jetstream on the cold side could well let you see one.

Quoting EIDAA (Reply 15):
what is a typical "turbulence penetration speed" for an aircraft? Let's say for example an A330 cruising at M0.81/82 hits rough air, what sort of speed is used?

For a 'Bus, the turbulence penetration is in the vicinity of 275 kt / .76 Mach.
If you're interested, we could give you the theory behind .

Regards
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Markhkg
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:51 am

Wow, I think I was actually in the "Twinjet" aircraft cabin that is seen in the video. I believe it's the Long Beach Alteon MD-80 cabin trainer. Fun little thing.  Smile
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EIDAA
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:55 pm



Quoting Pihero (Reply 16):
If you're interested, we could give you the theory behind .

Most certainly interested! Any information appreciated...

Thanks
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:21 pm

Mark, you are right about the cabin trainer. As fgor the flight attendant, I used to work with her at another airline, prior to that she was a Master cabin trainer for Mc-Douglas...very cool to see her after all these years!
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ThirtyEcho
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:42 am

I use Norton Antivirus and Spyware Doctor; both came up with a warning about the video.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video

Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:22 pm



Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 20):
I use Norton Antivirus and Spyware Doctor; both came up with a warning about the video.

Norton is notoriously over-paranoid about scripted events in my opinion. But hey, better safe than sorry.  Wink
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