Alessandro
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Biofuel?

Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:23 am

So Virgin has tested biofuel on a B744, 20% on one engine, made of coconut oil and palmoil. If you use 20% on all engines it´s 48 thousand liters, which is a fair bit.
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A320ajm
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RE: Biofuel?

Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:58 pm

I don't understand why Greenpeace aren't happy with this move by Brason.
Are they not happy with anything!?
Greenpeace get on my nerves! They should be tougher punishments for breaching security like that at Heathrow  Angry
Regards
A320ajm
If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
 
Alessandro
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RE: Biofuel?

Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:12 pm

Sure they love to hate aviation, the root to all evil in their world.
This could be good for farmers in 3rd world, whom make better living by increased price in coconut oil.
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Dalmd88
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RE: Biofuel?

Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:11 am

So Branson has run turbine engine with something other than pure Jet-A. It hasn't solved anything. The engine manufactures have know for decades that they can run on alternate fuels. I recall the Garrett 331 MM had a chart showing the spec gravity settings for other fuels. I'm pretty sure the Army has the same for their turbine powered tanks.

The real issue is not can it run on coconut oil or grain alcohol, but can those fuels give the range for volume that is acceptable and the cost factor. Also distribution in aviation is a big problem. All airlines at most airports share common fuel. They would all have to certified and willing to use a blend.
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: Biofuel?

Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:51 am



Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 3):
All airlines at most airports share common fuel. They would all have to certified and willing to use a blend.

Branson's fuel is at least 10 years away from use om passenger aircraft.
Read the articles in this weeks flight. extracts in Flight Global
www.flightglobal.com/environment
What is happening is JetA1 made from Coal and Gas.
SASOL in South Africa is near approval for 100pc JetA1 made from Coal.
Shell in Doha are a year away from JetA1 made from gas. (Qatar has unlimited supplies of gas)
 
Alessandro
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RE: Biofuel?

Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:38 pm

Well, this is something that should´ve started long ago, I think Russian aircraft got a good market in Cuba, Vietnam
and India, all three big coconut producers, countries that have operated many Russian aircraft in the past.

[Edited 2008-02-27 05:39:20]
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DC-10Tech
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RE: Biofuel?

Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:07 pm



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 2):
This could be good for farmers in 3rd world, whom make better living by increased price in coconut oil.

That's exactly my concern. I really don't want to see the price of food products going threw the roof because its also a fuel source. Not to mention, I seriously doubt we can produce enough biofuel to sustain airline operations around the globe.

I forsee a return to airships and sailboats in the next couple of centuries.  frown 
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DC-10Tech
Posts: 291
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RE: Biofuel?

Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:11 pm



Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 4):
SASOL in South Africa is near approval for 100pc JetA1 made from Coal.

This is promising. Its my understanding that the US has coal deposits that made Saudi Arabia's oil reserves look small.

Quote:
Shell in Doha are a year away from JetA1 made from gas. (Qatar has unlimited supplies of gas)

Unlimited???
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Tristarsteve
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RE: Biofuel?

Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:46 pm



Quoting DC-10Tech (Reply 7):
Unlimited???

OK perhaps not the right word, but more than they know what to do with. It comes out the ground for free when they look for oil so using it through a Fisher Tropic process to make aircraft fuel is a good idea.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Biofuel?

Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:46 pm



Quoting DC-10Tech (Reply 7):
Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 4):
SASOL in South Africa is near approval for 100pc JetA1 made from Coal.

This is promising. Its my understanding that the US has coal deposits that made Saudi Arabia's oil reserves look small.

Fischer-Tropf fuels (what SASOL is using) are a great alternative for dwindling hydrocarbons, but their carbon footprint is enormous (much bigger than the equivalent hydrocarbons) so they don't fix any of the environmental issues. They actually make them worse.

Tom.
 
NoUFO
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RE: Biofuel?

Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:32 pm



Quoting A320ajm (Reply 1):
I don't understand why Greenpeace aren't happy with this move by Brason.

Because "Biofuel" poses a threat to the rainforest and because concerns mount over fuel-versus-food competition?
I support the right to arm bears
 
CJAContinental
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RE: Biofuel?

Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:17 pm



Quoting A320ajm (Reply 1):
I don't understand why Greenpeace aren't happy with this move by Brason.
Are they not happy with anything!?
Greenpeace get on my nerves! They should be tougher punishments for breaching security like that at Heathrow
Regards
A320ajm

As said before, Bio-fuels diversify the use of natural substances away from more local and more conventional uses such as food. In the VS tests, the biofuel came from a particular plant in South America; this is significant because again, as said by NoUFO, this will mean that rainforest is likely to be replaced with land used to produce these fuels. Trees act as Carbon syncs, and if you take these away, then you really defeat the object.

However, although I do not want to see bio-fuels become more frequently used in commercial aviation, at least VS are trying something out, a slight step in the right direction.
Work Hard/Fly Right.
 
A320ajm
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 11:57 pm

RE: Biofuel?

Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:29 pm



Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 11):

Well, all i have to say to that is beggars can't be choosers!
Regards
A320ajm
If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
 
Alessandro
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RE: Biofuel?

Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:54 am



Quoting DC-10Tech (Reply 6):
That's exactly my concern. I really don't want to see the price of food products going threw the roof because its also a fuel source. Not to mention, I seriously doubt we can produce enough biofuel to sustain airline operations around the globe.

I forsee a return to airships and sailboats in the next couple of centuries.

Well, I think farmers in the 3rd world should get a better price for their produce. With biofuel "refuelstops" I think
also infrastructure in some of the 3rd world countries could benefit.
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