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HAWK21M
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Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:37 am

Tail support assemblies or Tail stays used mainly on Freighter & some Pax aircraft to avoid a nose up situation on Ground.
I've seen this on B737 freighters,ATRs & IL62.I think the Sab2000 also had one.

Anyone aware of other types.

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tb727
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:45 pm

We have tailstands on our Learjet's and 727's. We also had them on our Volpar Turbine Beech 18's back when we had them. I've heard the Lear's and Beech's have no real adverse flying effects when you forget to take them off for flight.


On the road seeing other carriers I have seen just about everything else that flies freight with some sort of support, DC-8's, DC-10's and 747's. I think FedEx even ties down the nose gear on some of their planes. I do not recall if their Airbus have any tail support though.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:19 pm



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 1):
and 747's.

Any pic of the B747 Freighter Tail support assembly.
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tb727
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:35 pm

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HAWK21M
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:54 pm


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Interesting.
There are a few B747 operators that experienced a Nose up Tilt on ground.Wonder why they did not use it.
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roseflyer
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:20 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Thread starter):
I've seen this on B737 freighters,ATRs & IL62.I think the Sab2000 also had one.

The 737-800 has a tail skid. The 737-800SFP (Short Field Performance) and 737-900ER have a two position tail skid. This is in case a plane hits the tail on the ground while on approach or takeoff. The tail skids aren't necessarily designed for a loading problem on the ground which could cause the airplane to tip.

[Edited 2008-03-12 16:26:00]
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HAWK21M
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:16 pm



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):
The 737-800 has a tail skid. The 737-800SFP (Short Field Performance) and 737-900ER have a two position tail skid. This is in case a plane hits the tail on the ground while on approach or takeoff. The tail skids aren't necessarily designed for a loading problem on the ground which could cause the airplane to tip

I think you've got mixed up.The Tail support Assy & tail skid are two different units.
The Tail support assy is to prevent a tilt on ground & is "mostly" detachable.

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Starlionblue
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:07 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):

I think you've got mixed up.The Tail support Assy & tail skid are two different units.
The Tail support assy is to prevent a tilt on ground & is "mostly" detachable.

Indeed. The tail skid is for tail strike protection. The tail support is for imbalance on the ground protection.
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Dufo
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:36 pm

Tail support is also available on Let L410 but I have never seen it in use. It is mounted on the ventral fin which also serves as a tail skid.

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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:22 pm



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 1):
We have tailstands on our Learjet's and 727's.

I thought common procedure on 727's was to lower the rear air stair for tail support. Is this assembly normally removed during the cargo conversion?
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B777Neuss
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:02 pm

Hi,

Tail stay from a Singapore aircraft.


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tb727
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:44 am



Quoting TSS (Reply 9):

I thought common procedure on 727's was to lower the rear air stair for tail support. Is this assembly normally removed during the cargo conversion?

I always thought that as well, but I don't think that the air stair would be too much help, it could be. I always thought it was more of a ventilation thing to have it open. On our freighters though, just forward of the airstair on the belly, there is a spot for a steel stand that hangs as a tail stand.
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ArmitageShanks
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:45 am

ATR's and Saab340's use them as well.
 
fr8mech
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:48 am



Quoting TSS (Reply 9):
I thought common procedure on 727's was to lower the rear air stair for tail support. Is this assembly normally removed during the cargo conversion?

When we operated them; our -100's did not have a tail stand, but our -200's did. I always thought it a little strange, because on the -100, the tail stairs did not lock down, but on the -200, they did.

Quoting HAWK21M (Thread starter):

Anyone aware of other types.

A300 operated by UPS.


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stratosphere
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:08 am



Quoting TSS (Reply 9):
I thought common procedure on 727's was to lower the rear air stair for tail support. Is this assembly normally removed during the cargo conversion?

You are correct atleast when I worked at nwa when we had the 727 you always dropped the aft airstairs after arrival for just that purpose. FedEx has the airstairs but also has tailstands in their 727's..
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:43 am



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 13):

When we operated them; our -100's did not have a tail stand, but our -200's did. I always thought it a little strange, because on the -100, the tail stairs did not lock down, but on the -200, they did.

Perhaps the stretch made the weight distribution more touchy?
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ThirtyEcho
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:44 am

My uncle, a B-24 aircraft commander in WWII, said that they would jam an ammo box up under the mid section of the airplane, while on the ground, to prevent such upsets.

I wish that I had a photo.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:45 am



Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 16):
My uncle, a B-24 aircraft commander in WWII, said that they would jam an ammo box up under the mid section of the airplane, while on the ground, to prevent such upsets.

How strong would that box be  Smile

Wish there was a picture.


I think the IL62 has an in built tail support assy which retracts.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:12 pm



Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 16):
My uncle, a B-24 aircraft commander in WWII, said that they would jam an ammo box up under the mid section of the airplane, while on the ground, to prevent such upsets.

I've heard this too. My guess is that it was more of a crate than a box, and as such quite strong.
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kc135topboom
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:04 pm

We used a tail stand on the KC-135, and IIRC, the DC-8-61F/7-1F/-63F/-73F all used a tail stand, too.
 
ThirtyEcho
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:52 am



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 18):



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 18):
I've heard this too. My guess is that it was more of a crate than a box, and as such quite strong.

It was a standard steel .50 caliber ammo box; what, you thought it was like something from WalMart?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:12 am



Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 20):
It was a standard steel .50 caliber ammo box

That would be heavy to pull in position unless there are wheels attached  wink 

Is the Tail support Assy mandatory for B747 Freighters.Was wondering cause there have been a few tipping issues on that type in the past.

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N27UADIESEL8
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:07 pm

I have seen Amerijet use the aft stairs as a kind of tail stand. We at DHL, are forbidden to use the stairs as a tail stand, we have tailstands on the B727 and on the A300 we hold the nose with a tether as a means to hold the nose to the ground.

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fr8mech
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:57 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 21):
Is the Tail support Assy mandatory for B747 Freighters.

It is not mandatory. There are alternate means of maintaining the CG of the aircraft during the load/unload process. This normally involves step-loading/unloading. This involves moving all the freight forward or aft as a unit, more or less. Very time consuming, Side doors are easier than nose loaders, in this respect.
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ThirtyEcho
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:25 am



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 21):
That would be heavy to pull in position unless there are wheels attached wink



It was an EMPTY ammo box.

Sheesh !!!

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HAWK21M
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:58 am



Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 24):

It was an EMPTY ammo box.

Sheesh !!!

Thats why the Wink at the end  Smile

On the B747 Tail support...This type freighter seems to be prone to tipping over a lot.

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Viscount724
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:19 am



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 1):
On the road seeing other carriers I have seen just about everything else that flies freight with some sort of support,

Common on some earlier types also.

http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/VossJohn/4789L.jpg

 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft

Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:41 am

The IL62 was Interesting because of the Retracting feature.
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