LockstockNL777
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747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:23 pm

On this picture of a Martinair 747-200..

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..it is visible that the primary flight instruments are digital. I never knew this was an option for a 747-200, anyone has any more details on this? Thanks!
 
A342
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:46 pm

They were probably retrofitted. Have a look at the following link:

http://www.cmcelectronics.ca/En/Prod...Commav/commav_fds_overview_en.html
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:53 pm

Check this out:



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lowrider
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:20 pm

I think it is a retrofit. Electromechanical instruments generate a lot of heat and are expensive to overhaul. The digital replacements have a much longer service life.
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vikkyvik
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:37 pm



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 2):
Check this out:

That first one looks like a normal 767 cockpit, if I'm not mistaken....
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flynavy
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:06 am



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 4):

That first one looks like a normal 767 cockpit, if I'm not mistaken....

Right, that's the point. Before vs. after. The second picture is the IS&S flight deck upgrade offered on 757s and 767s.
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tb727
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:19 am

NW changed all or most of their 742Fs over to EFIS engine instruments and Kalitta Air has also including some ADI and HSI upgrades much like the Martinair 742. They are more reliable than the original and look good too.
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stratosphere
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:52 am



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 5):
The second picture is the IS&S flight deck upgrade offered on 757s and 767s

FDX is going to that flight deck upgrade for their 757's they are aquiring.
 
flynavy
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:50 am



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 7):
FDX is going to that flight deck upgrade for their 757's they are aquiring.

Good choice by FX. Their investment in bringing their upcoming massive fleet of 757s by way of this upgrade will prove vastly beneficial. DL is even studying this upgrade for its 757/767 fleets.

Any idea if FX will retrofit their 757s FMS from PIP to Pegasus FMCs as well?
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ex52tech
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:58 am



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 6):
NW changed all or most of their 742Fs over to EFIS engine instruments

It is called EIDS, and they put it on all of the DC10-30s, DC10 -40s, and the 742 fleet also. It has the capability to take snap shots, and has an exceedence page. Very good system, works very well.
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avioniker
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:26 pm



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 8):
Any idea if FX will retrofit their 757s FMS from PIP to Pegasus FMCs as well?

I certainly hope not. I have enough trouble getting the point across with the simple stuff we have now.
I personally perfer the Universal or the Smiths. The formats are very similar and there's very few boxes and no exotic interfaces. RC 9000 is okay too but the layout and keystroke routine isn't intuitive. The advantage would be that FX is already using the MCDU for radio control on the Airbus fleet so it wouldn't be new to the crews.
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Jetlagged
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:31 pm



Quoting Ex52tech (Reply 9):
It is called EIDS, and they put it on all of the DC10-30s, DC10 -40s, and the 742 fleet also. It has the capability to take snap shots, and has an exceedence page. Very good system, works very well.

True, Penny & Giles designed that system, and Atlas Air also use it on their classics. The LCDs are quite small and not especially readable however. IS&S, who designed the 767/757 all glass update, have developed a better EIDS using a single much larger plasma display for Kalitta Air. The system includes a second display on the F/E panel which replaces the secondary engine instruments and a backup standby engine indicator.

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 6):
NW changed all or most of their 742Fs over to EFIS engine instruments and Kalitta Air has also including some ADI and HSI upgrades much like the Martinair 742. They are more reliable than the original and look good too.

It was KLM who lead the way with EFIS retrofits on 747-200s. They also added FMS, replacing the original INS, but retained the old engine displays. All these retrofits use LCDs or plasma displays. CRTs would have lead to an increase in the cooling requirements. The new systems log faults and exceedances so they are a big improvement for maintenance, over and above increased reliability.
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ex52tech
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:54 pm



Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 11):
The LCDs are quite small and not especially readable however.

They weren't any smaller or harder to read than the original tapes. They also have a lock on any exceedence that pilots don't like to have documented.
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Jetlagged
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:56 pm



Quoting Ex52tech (Reply 12):
They weren't any smaller or harder to read than the original tapes. They also have a lock on any exceedence that pilots don't like to have documented.

I was thinking round dials v EIDS. The EIDS displays are about two inches shorter than the mechanical tapes, though more readable (good use of colour). The old tapes do record exceedances, but not as comprehensively (or tamper free) as the EIDS. However compared to round dial presentation the EIDS is not as readable and I know crews who thought the conversion of round dials to EIDS was a backward step (then again some crews liked it). Only about half of the EIDS panel area is devoted to displaying information. The IS&S EIDS system I mentioned earlier has a separate control panel and a large display, all of which is devoted to displaying data.


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KELPkid
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:10 pm

Wonder if you could also install some of the automation equipment from the 747-400 and thus eliminate the flight engineer crew position while you were at it...  scratchchin 
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ex52tech
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:58 pm



Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 13):
The old tapes do record exceedances, but not as comprehensively (or tamper free) as the EIDS. However compared to round dial presentation the EIDS is not as readable and I know crews who thought the conversion of round dials to EIDS was a backward step (then again some crews liked it)

"Tamper free" would be the key words here.

I came from an airline which used the round dials, to an airline that used the tapes. I absolutely hated the tapes, we had to have one guy in the cockpit trying to read and write down the tape readings while we were conducting high power engine runs. The nice feature about the EIDS was taking a "snap shot" while at power, and then recalling those readings when returning to idle.

Personally going from round dials to the EIDS would have even been a step backwards.
"Saddest thing I ever witnessed....an airplane being scrapped"
 
bruin787
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:03 pm

i got a Kalitta 747-100 with somewhat similar upgrades last year.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f269/janus020/f5c51379.jpg
http://taxiwayalpha.blogspot.com
 
vc10
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:29 pm



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
Wonder if you could also install some of the automation equipment from the 747-400 and thus eliminate the flight engineer crew position while you were at it...

Why, so the aircraft can have 3 pilots instead of 2 pilots and a F/E

littlevc10 Big grin
 
LockstockNL777
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:45 am



Quoting Bruin787 (Reply 16):
i got a Kalitta 747-100 with somewhat similar upgrades last year.

what? you got one for christmas or something?!!!  Wink
 
pilotboi
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:31 pm



Quoting Bruin787 (Reply 16):
i got a Kalitta 747-100 with somewhat similar upgrades last year.

I don't see the upgrades in that pic. I've actually yet to see any of Kalitta's upgrade pics, other then what my dad has shown me from work.
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: 747-200 With "glass Cockpit"

Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:59 pm



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 19):
I don't see the upgrades in that pic. I've actually yet to see any of Kalitta's upgrade pics, other then what my dad has shown me from work.

The photo shows it has EFIS and FMS, but not EIDS yet. Since Kalitta Air has started buying 744 freighters the upgrade of the classics might slow down.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.

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