phileet92
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How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?

Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:42 pm

Not sure if this is in the right forum or if this has been posted before,

but if the medium and short ranged aircraft are built where their manufacturing plants are such as Boeing 737s in Everett and Airbus A320s in Toulouse, how do they get them across the ocean so that jetblue has them or japan airlines...????
 
2H4
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RE: How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?

Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:58 pm

If an airplane lacks the range to be delivered to a destination, ferry tanks are used:


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2H4
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MDorBust
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RE: How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?

Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:59 pm

North Atlantic via Canada Iceland Ireland.

North Pac via Alaska Midway Japan

Island hopping, it's for more than just invasions.
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futurecaptain
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RE: How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?

Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:19 pm

To add what is already out there.

An airliner's range increases dramatically when the plane is being flown empty as it would on delivery flights.
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EMBQA
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RE: How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their De

Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:43 pm

They just fly them.... there is no where on this planet that 95% of the aircraft ever built can't reach.......even small private aircraft. Ferry tanks, Island hopping.............etc
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Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 3):
An airliner's range increases dramatically when the plane is being flown empty as it would on delivery flights.

Agreed.. I've done well over 5 hours in a Saab 340... and that was with no special tanks and headed south-westbound.

[Edited 2008-03-28 12:54:32]
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rwessel
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RE: How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?

Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:03 pm



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 4):
They just fly them.... there is no where on this planet that 95% of the aircraft ever built can't reach.......even small private aircraft. Ferry tanks, Island hopping.............etc

That may be a little optimistic for some of the island destinations. While light aircraft have been flow, for example, to Hawaii with ferry tanks, it's still a really long grueling flight (on the order of 19 hours in a 172 - which has actually been done). And you probably get to start with an overweight takeoff. For most small aircraft it's much simpler (and cheaper) to just unbolt the wings and put the thing on a boat.

OTOH, to most places it's no problem. To cross the Atlantic you need only about 750nm range (and none of the overwater portions are more than 500nm).
 
LockstockNL777
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RE: How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?

Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:10 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 1):

BTW, how are the ferry tanks connected to the fuel system? Do they just fill up the main tanks during flight? And if so, is this done continously or at certain moments?

Thanks!!
 
474218
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RE: How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?

Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:30 pm

I can't see any one going to the expense of adding ferry tanks to an aircraft they are going to store/scrape. I know one North American operator that removed all the avionics and flew their aircraft to the desert VFR.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?

Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:02 pm



Quoting Phileet92 (Thread starter):
Boeing 737s in Everett and Airbus A320s in Toulouse, how do they get them across the ocean so that jetblue has them or japan airlines...????

For those particular aircraft, range is not an issue. They can easily do the Atlantic with one stop if flown empty with full tanks. Of course, you can't do an ETOPS flight typically so the route is a bit longer. For the Pacific, they might need two stops, going the long way around Alaska and Japan.

Note that if an airliner has max payload you typically can't fill the tanks because you would exceed MTOW by a wide margin. This is another factor making ferry range dramatically more than service range.
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Gemuser
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RE: How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?

Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:15 am



Quoting Rwessel (Reply 5):
While light aircraft have been flow, for example, to Hawaii with ferry tanks, it's still a really long grueling flight (on the order of 19 hours in a 172 - which has actually been done).

Actually Cessna 172s and other light aircraft are flown from SFO to SYD via Hawaii and other Pacific Islands on a quite regular basis.

Quoting LockstockNL777 (Reply 6):
BTW, how are the ferry tanks connected to the fuel system? Do they just fill up the main tanks during flight? And if so, is this done continously or at certain moments?

Depends on the aircraft type and ferry tank system fitted. I have seen a system on high wing Cessnas where the ferry tanks are plumbed into the regular fuel system near the tank selector on the forward cabin floor, so I would assume its direct to the engine in that case.


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rendezvous
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RE: How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?

Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:22 am

If it's a delivery flight, does it still need to follow ETOPs?
 
Gemuser
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RE: How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?

Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:46 am



Quoting Rendezvous (Reply 10):
If it's a delivery flight, does it still need to follow ETOPs?

Short answer - no.
Some what longer answer, the ferry flight occurs under what ever conditions the airworthiness authority of the aircrafts country of registration allows. So if your authority permits it, any rule can be by passed. Ferry flight often operate above normal MTOW, for example.

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phileet92
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RE: How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?

Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:07 pm

Island hopping was my first thought. Ferry tanks is new to me.

thanks for the feedback!
phileet92
 
Viscount724
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RE: How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?

Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:29 am



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 2):
North Pac via Alaska Midway Japan

I believe many 737s being delivered to Japan and Asia are routed via HNL. You'll find numerous photos in the database of such aircraft at HNL on their delivery flights.
 
abqwildcat
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RE: How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?

Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:59 am

Just wanted to point out - B737s are built in Renton, WA at Boeing's narrow-body assembly plant, not at Everett in Boeing's wide-body assembly plant.

[Edited 2008-03-29 22:00:41]
 
EMBQA
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RE: How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?

Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:34 pm



Quoting Phileet92 (Reply 12):
Ferry tanks is new to me.

Ferry Tanks go back to the days of Charles Lindbergh....
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
EMBQA
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RE: How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?

Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:40 pm

"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
Viscount724
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RE: How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?

Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:10 am



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 15):
Quoting Phileet92 (Reply 12):
Ferry tanks is new to me.

Ferry Tanks go back to the days of Charles Lindbergh....

Photos of ferry tanks installed on a B717 prior to the delivery flight to HA.


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