futurecaptain
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World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:44 pm

One travel magazine has rated what they believe to be the scariest runways in the world.

http://www.travelandleisure.com/slid...hows/the-worlds-scariest-runways/1

Agree? Disagree? Anything you would add?
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NWAESC
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:51 pm

From the Lesotho slide:

" Instead, you drop down the face of a 2,000-foot cliff until you start flying."



 Wow!  Wow!  Wow!

I don't have any to add... Maybe SNA oughta be on the list, though??? At least in a "top 20?"
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EXAAUADL
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:56 pm

Im surprised Cuzco , Peru isnt there.
 
mirrodie
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:57 pm

SXM and JFK are both on there?

Shows how much of a joke that article is. This Farhad Heydari, the author, is just silly.

I question this particular quote: ""A lot of these airports require additional training and route familiarization because they’re so crazy," says one commercial pilot who flies international routes."


Do SXM and JFK require special clearance to fly?
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kcrwflyer
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:58 pm

I'm surprised JFK is even on there, and that SXM is number 2. I also cant believe Toncontin is 7th, and Saba is last.

Whats scary about JFK or Gibraltar for that matter?

That list needs completely re-done
 
Elite
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:59 pm

Number 5... just wow.

The old HKG airport would probably make the list if it was still active.
 
AF340
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:00 pm

I'm surprised that DCA placed higher than TGU or that Lesotho airport. Also, it SXM that scary?

Quoting Elite (Reply 5):
The old HKG airport would probably make the list if it was still active.

 checkmark  Kai Tak would definitely be on there!


Liam  

[Edited 2008-04-12 08:01:41]
 
UAL777UK
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:09 pm

not sure about this article.....Barra, Scary...having flown in on the twin otter on numerous occasions onto a massive beech its in no way scary. Fantastic yes, not scary!
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:18 pm



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 3):
Shows how much of a joke that article is.

 checkmark 

DCA, GIB, nothing scary about them. Been in to/out of both. Nothing to it.

Wanna get your panties in a wad over a runway . . .

Try DUT or SIT.

Dutch has a mountain at the end of the "usual" departure runway that DEMANDS an immediate left turn or your world is certainly gonna get ugly. And it's only 3700' long. Try that in a 737!

SIT is built on a manmade island in the middle of a bay . . . try watching the plane get lower and lower and lower - being able to read what's written on the hat of a local fisherman before "Poof" there's the runway - 10 feet below you . . .

Tegucigalpa? Nothing to that one either . . . Been there and done that.

JFK?  rotfl 
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XT6Wagon
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:19 pm

I don't think its in any order.

and I think you could fill the entire list with small islands OR cliff top runways. There is alot of world out there and most of it is just not able to support 2 mile long runways.

Point is the dude writing it doesn't care if he is accurate, just that he gets his check for some filler in a travel mag/site
 
swissy
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:28 pm

I would say non of them are....  Smile, they are "priceless" Big grin

Quoting Elite (Reply 5):
The old HKG airport would probably make the list if it was still active.

Yep agree, priceless and unfortunately not active anymore  Yeah sure

Cheers,
 
bakersdozen
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:09 pm



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 2):
Im surprised Cuzco , Peru isnt there.

I'm planning on heading there in a couple of months and I'm curious, what is scary about it? mountains? I've never been and really don't know.
 
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UltimateDelta
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:42 pm

That was so stupid. National isn't really scary, just tricky to get into/out of. I think Stehekin (6S9) in Washingotn state takes the cake. It is in a tiny bowl in the Cascades, with mountains rising up on all sides about 1,500 feet from the end of the super-short runway. I have only visited it on FSX, but that is enough to keep me away in reality.
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PlymSpotter
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:51 pm

I don't agree with all of those, there is nothing scary about a runway with an ILS installed, so I really don't see why some of them are in there other than to make the general public think that they have probably flown from incredibly dangerous places, when they haven't.

I'd put forwards Khorog in Tajikistan as being one of the most dangerous, along with many in Nepal and perhaps also Caticlan in the Philippines if we're talking about their BAe 146 service to that airport.


Dan  Smile
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AirAmericaC46
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:39 pm

My vote goes to Lukla, Nepal. The end of the runway drops to the world's deepest ravine!
 
dfwmzuri
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:09 pm



Quoting Elite (Reply 5):
The old HKG airport would probably make the list if it was still active.

This was the first one that came to my mind.
 
BA787
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:55 pm

I'm surprised Courcehevel Airport isn't listed there. Suppose it's not really big enought to be listed.

Also, from a passengers perspective, both CMF amd TRN are interestingly scary approaches.

TRN is quite good fun as you sweep over the Alps at some daunting altitudes

CMF is nothing special unless you're in a fully loaded 737-700ER or an -800. The approach is steep as it is, and then you slam onto the runway and get thrown forward as full brakes are applied . Those on the right of the aircraft have the most heart wrenching experience as they realise how little runway is left after you stop.

BA787
 
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TupolevTu154
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:47 pm

Since when did FlyBe start services to Barra?

And Air Malta, Easyjet and Iberia to Gibraltar?
 
tdscanuck
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:54 am



Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 1):
I don't have any to add... Maybe SNA oughta be on the list, though??? At least in a "top 20?"

SNA is fun, but hardly scary.

The article is clearly targeting only commercial aviation, but if you really want to talk the scariest runway in the world, I think it would conclusively have to be:
http://media.bmt.org/bmt_media/bmt_images/34/AircraftCarrier.jpg

Tom.
 
futurecaptain
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:00 am



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 18):
The article is clearly targeting only commercial aviation, but if you really want to talk the scariest runway in the world, I think it would conclusively have to be:
http://media.bmt.org/bmt_media/bmt_i...r.jpg

It would be scarier if the carrier had a conveyor belt on top.  duck 
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L-188
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:31 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 3):
SXM and JFK are both on there?

Shows how much of a joke that article is. This Farhad Heydari, the author, is just silly.

Agreed, those don't deserve to be there.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
SIT is built on a manmade island in the middle of a bay . . . try watching the plane get lower and lower and lower - being able to read what's written on the hat of a local fisherman before "Poof" there's the runway - 10 feet below you

Japonski Island wasn't man-made, there are a couple of causeway extensions but the island there has been there a while.

Besides it isn't that difficult, I would rank Juneau, Skagway and Valdez all as much tougher.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Try DUT

I need to find some place to post a video of the approach I have.

Edit: Kodiak...I forgot to bring up Kodiak. Somewhere I have a photo of the approach into that bowl. You can see a C-5 parked on the airport...

[Edited 2008-04-13 20:39:08]
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L-188
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:29 am

Lets see if this works, a friend of mine shot these a number of years ago. I just added them to my MySpace page so that I could post them here.

This is the front door into Dutch Harbor, Alaska. This is the direction the 737's used to come in from.

Dutch Harbor Front Door 1


Dutch Harbor front door 2


And the backdoor, this is the direction that the goose that Pen-air just lost came in from, at the base of the runway is a road past the airport, that is what the truck was on that it hit.

You can play a game in these two videos, see if you can see the 150 foot obstruction 1/8th of a mile off the runway end that was notamed that day.

Dutch Harbor Backdoor 1


Dutch Harbor Backdoor 2
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Tristarsteve
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:46 am

I would like to add Shiraz in Iran.
When I worked for Gulf Air we flew there. In the B737 it was daylight only. Only the VC10 was allowed there in darkness. The airport was in a bowl of mountains. The standard departure was to turn at 500 ft on departure and continue in a rate 1 turn until you had climbed about 8000 ft above airport elevation before heading home. In the B737 it took about 3-4 360deg circles to get above the mountains.
I was last there in 1981 just after the Iran Revolution and we were evacuating Shell employees. I was glad to leave as there was gunfire and explosions in the city only a couple of miles away!
 
Arniepie
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:17 am

How about Mae Hong Son (VTCH) ,located in the mountainous terrain of Thailand served with regular commercial flights?

Picture, basic explanation and approach plate:

http://www.thaiflyingclub.com/linkairportmaehongson.html
[edit post]
 
BoeingOnFinal
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:37 am



Quote:
Because of the diminutive 1,312-foot-long runway perched at the edge of a couloir at 7,550 feet, becoming airborne at the end of the tarmac is virtually impossible. Instead, you drop down the face of a 2,000-foot cliff until you start flying.

You really should have thought of that before landing at that particular runway, shouldn't you? I surely hope this was an exaggeration for the sake of the article!
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mirrodie
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:23 pm

Thanks for the links re: Dutch Harbor. I recall reading about that in some aviation magazine several months ago.

You guys ought to email T+L magazine and sort them out.  Wink
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miamiair
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:30 pm

Here you have it in a puddle jumper, tosses out the anchor real quick.

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BAE146QT
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:12 pm

The 'article' states that the Twotters which land at Barra are "specially rigged". Does anyone know in what way?

One other thing;

Quote:
And upon hitting the tarmac, pilots must quickly and fully engage the auto-brakes.

Does anyone see anything wrong with this statement?


::EDIT:: I put 'article' in scare quotes because it's more of a presentation than an article. I wasn't being sarcastic.

I was being sarcastic about the autobrakes think though.

[Edited 2008-04-14 10:35:15]
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BWilliams
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:38 pm



Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 27):
The 'article' states that the Twotters which land at Barra are "specially rigged". Does anyone know in what way

I would guess that they have larger tires which would give them better traction when breaking on the sand.
Regards, Brad Williams
 
sprout5199
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:53 pm

Landing at KLAL (went to Sun-n-Fun) this weekend was pretty scary, "Maule turn final NOW, Maule land on green dot, Maule land between green and orange, ok just land on orange dot. two seconds later--cessna land on orange dot"

Dan in Jupiter
 
AirWillie6475
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:55 pm



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 3):
SXM and JFK are both on there



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
DCA, GIB, nothing scary about them. Been in to/out of both. Nothing to it.

While there is nothing scary about sitting in the back and enjoying the view out the window, inside the cockpit the 2 pilots are hard at work trying not get violated flying at these airports that require special procedures especially DCA where if you had a bad day you can easily lose your licenses. There are people that actually try to avoid trips in and out of places near JFK. SXM, well not particularly scary but being cleared for a visual and trying to line up with a spec of runway surrounded by water is difficult because the water gives illusions while trying to fly a proper glide path especially if the runway is on the water's edge.
 
gkyip
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:19 am



Quoting TupolevTu154 (Reply 17):
Since when did FlyBe start services to Barra?

Probably referring to the up and coming takeover of Loganair by Flybe.

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 27):
Does anyone see anything wrong with this statement?

I thought the same when I first read it! Silly

First I've heard of Lesotho though, looks terrifying! Reminds me of the infamous Goldeneye pre-credit scene! irked 

Gary
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EssentialPowr
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:14 am

Quito.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Tegucigalpa? Nothing to that one either . . . Been there and done that.

ANCFlyer, have you flown an airliner in and out of Tegoose, or ridden in back??? Wouldn't one have had to actually flown an aircraft in/out of said airport to qualify for a response?
 
mozart
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:06 am

Whilst I agree that the journalist is a layman, and whilst I agree that there are some other airports where pilots are challenged more than at a usual straight-in line-up 20nm before ILS in nice weather landing on a long runway, I think we should give this selection some credit.

SXM - "scary" may be exaggerated, but surely the length of the runway forces pilots of heavy planes to really touch down at the threshold. No margin for too high speed or a greased flare. The fact that there is no "free space" around the runway adds to the challenge.

JFK - true, JFK as such may not be scary. But ask a pilot who has just done an eight hour flight across the Atlantic to have to do the CANARSIE approach with its last-minute bank - he'll find it challenging.

GIB - became a lot less challenging since Spain and Britain found an agreement on Gibraltar. Before that, planes had to circumvent Spanish air space, which is kind of tricky and involved many turns. Also, placed close to the rocks wind/weather often adds to the challenge.

TGU - well, try it in your Sim, and you'll see why it's challenging. Basically located at the bottom of a bowl, the plane needs to wind itself down into the valley. No space for long line-ups

DCA - as described above. Again, it's challenging.

Other approaches that fit into the category of "challenging for pilots" (the word "scary" is b**sh*t in this context):

- Wellington, New Zealand, because of the prevailing winds
- Skiathos, Greece: very very short runway between two mountains. Largest plane: 757, but only for short hops
- Leh, India: again, in the mountains. Largest plane: 737/32S
- Kathmandu, Nepal: mountain riff to fly over on line-up to runway, requiring steep descent after that. Largest plane: 747
- Couchevel, Mégève: "Altiports" built in the middle of ski slopes. Largest plane: Dash 7
- Samedan: moutains all around, little space to line up. Largest plane: 737 BBJ have been spotted
- Innsbruck: mountains all around, last-second curve required to line up. Largest plane: 777
- Honningsvag, Norway: Kai Tak for commuters. Largest plane: Dash 8-100
- London City Airport: very steep descent, special pilot rating required. Largest plane: Fokker 100, but A318 will soon operate
- St. Barthélémy, FWI: now that one really deserves the word "scary", even for pax: hilltop just a couple of meters before threshold, very short runway, a beach at the end of the rwy. Largest plane: Dornier 228, Dash 6
- Medellin OHE: placed at bottom of mountain bowl, short runway. Largest plane: Embraer ERJ-145
- Quito: altitude and mountainous terrain. Largest plane: A340-600 (one crashed recently)
- Bogota: terrain, especially on approach to rwy 31L and 31R. Largest plane: 744
- La Paz: terrain, altitude: Largest plane: 747-200, but they can't go far
- Aspen: mountainous terrain. Largest plane: Avro
- Rio de Janeiro SDU: moutains, very very short runway. Largest plane: A320
- Bolzano: quite a steep a curvy descent. Largest plane: Dash 8
- St. Tropez: mountainous terrain. Largest plane: Dash 8

And of course the queen of all difficult airports: Lukla, Nepal
 
brendows
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:33 pm



Quoting Mozart (Reply 33):
- Honningsvag, Norway: Kai Tak for commuters. Largest plane: Dash 8-100

Indeed, and the fact that it's next to the Barents Sea doesn't make it any easier.
For those who are not familiar with ENHV, check out the charts here:
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At the same time, check out ENRA  Smile
 
Arniepie
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:26 pm

I would like to fly to this one.

[edit post]
 
BAE146QT
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:49 pm



Quoting ArniePie (Reply 35):
I would like to fly to this one.

That is awesome.

Reminds me of that 'runway' the film Air America.
Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
 
Qantas744er
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:00 pm



Quoting Mozart (Reply 33):
- Quito: altitude and mountainous terrain. Largest plane: A340-600 (one crashed recently)

Actually Atlas sends their 742Fs and 744Fs on a regular basis.

346 is longer but not bigger.

Leo
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mozart
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:04 pm



Quoting ArniePie (Reply 35):
I would like to fly to this one.

Arnie Pie - where did you find that photo?!? I've been looking for it for years! It's been on a.net at one point, but I never found it back!

Where is it?
 
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TupolevTu154
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:59 pm



Quoting Gkyip (Reply 31):

Probably referring to the up and coming takeover of Loganair by Flybe.

Ahh  boxedin . Should've remembered that!

Quoting TupolevTu154 (Reply 17):
And Air Malta, Easyjet and Iberia to Gibraltar?

And I've just been infomed that all these airlines operate to GIB!  ashamed 
 
Arniepie
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:29 pm



Quoting Mozart (Reply 38):
Arnie Pie - where did you find that photo?!? I've been looking for it for years! It's been on a.net at one point, but I never found it back!

http://www.mullers.net/mike/Briefings/Runway-Analysis.jpg

I believe it's some old (60's and 70's era) bush runway used for smuggling weaponry and such in Cambodia or Vietnam used also by the US .
Not really sure though.
[edit post]
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:50 pm



Quoting Mozart (Reply 33):
- Quito: altitude and mountainous terrain. Largest plane: A340-600 (one crashed recently)

I think "crash" is a bit strong. It overran the runway after tires burst. No fatalities and the aircraft was not written off.
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WestJetForLife
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:12 am

My vote goes to Grand Forks, British Columbia. (CZGF)

Not only do you have to worry about mountains surrounding the airport (until you're on final approach), but you're just spitting distance from the U.S. border. If you get lost and you end up heading into U.S. territory, you'd better be ready to get a "hello" from Washington State ANG, as well as a nice talking to from Vancouver Center and the FBO once you get on the ground.

Cheers,
Nik
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co777er
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:07 am

Um.. how about EGE? There's a mountain at the end of the runway.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/-/-/1345372/M/

[Edited 2008-04-18 17:08:24]
 
todallasigo
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RE: World's Scariest Runways

Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:10 am

I think it is more intimidating to stand on Maho beach while any Jet is landing in St Maarten and listen to everyone yell, "oh no! My picnic basket/husband/child!" as everything blows into the water.

And, when I was in Gibraltar last, there were not restrictions for tourists/people to walk/drive directly across the runway to get into Gibraltar out of Spain. I guess the people crossing just make for very deadly speed bumps.

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