LEARJET23
Posts: 244
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What Is A CJ 6 Engine?

Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:26 am

As I understand it, it was the early Learjet engine and is now outlawed in the states because it is so earsplitting loud. Is this the reason so many old biz jets have been junked? How much would it cost to somehow make this thing quite down? Why was it Ok years ago but so forbidden now? I saw a learjet on ebay for only $200.000 and the remarks were that it had these motors and they would need to be replaced in order to fly the plane again. I am not a well read avation person, but this really interests me.
 
kbfispotter
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RE: What Is A CJ 6 Engine?

Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:44 am

It was the GE CJ610 that powered the Lear 23, along with the lear 24, 25, 28, and 29, as well as the Hansa Jet, and the Aero Commander 1121. This engine is still very much alive in the US, as it is based on the J-85, and engine that is used in the T-38, T-37, CT-114, and Scaled Composites White Knight.

I am interested in knowing where you heard it is outlawed...

Kris
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tb727
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RE: What Is A CJ 6 Engine?

Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:58 am

The engine you are talking about is GE's CJ-610. The CJ-610-4's were the original engine on the 23, most 20-series Lears today are powered by CJ-610-6's which put out 2950#'s of thrust and easily exceed 100 decibels on takeoff and the CJ-610-8A are the best ones, rated up to FL510 but just as loud. I think the company record for a noise violation is up over 110 decibels.

Nope, it isn't outlawed in the US, they are in Europe for the most part. I flew a Lear 25 today for the first time in about a year and as I pushed the throttles up on takeoff I remembered just how loud they are. There are a few airports that ban them at night in the US but you are good to go in the US with them. It is the CJ-610 engine that also powered some other bizjets. 20-series are considered Stage 2 unless you have the "fast wing" on them, then they are considered Stage 1. 30 series have TFE-731 motors on them and are Stage 3 although you can still set off noise sensors.

A side note, the 610 was originally designed as the engine to power long range missiles for a one time use. They are still going strong 45 years later still powering 20-series Learjets. It's a nearly bullet-proof engine that loves to suck down fuel but is more reliable than anything else out there.
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KELPkid
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RE: What Is A CJ 6 Engine?

Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:10 am



Quoting Learjet23 (Thread starter):
As I understand it, it was the early Learjet engine and is now outlawed in the states because it is so earsplitting loud.

Very loud-yes. Outlawed, no. Marshalling an aircraft powered by the CJ-610 in my lineboy days definitely required the ear protectors...those and the Mitsubishi MU-2's (not sure which engine the MU-2's used).

Quoting Learjet23 (Thread starter):
Is this the reason so many old biz jets have been junked?

Learjets and Cessna Citations seem to be the exception to this...but I get the feeling that half of bizjet ownership is the "mine is better than yours" syndrome  Wink
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EssentialPowr
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RE: What Is A CJ 6 Engine?

Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:27 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3):
Mitsubishi MU-2's (not sure which engine the MU-2's used).

TPE 331 Garrett...

LOUD too...

[Edited 2008-04-15 21:27:58]
 
Mir
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RE: What Is A CJ 6 Engine?

Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:11 am



Quoting KBFIspotter (Reply 1):
I am interested in knowing where you heard it is outlawed...

The engine isn't outlawed per se, but if you use them on your airplane you'll run afoul of noise restrictions in a number of places.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
LEARJET23
Posts: 244
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RE: What Is A CJ 6 Engine?

Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:04 pm

Someone said the cost of putting brand new jets on and old learjet could cost one million dollars alone, exceeding the putright perchase price of a used lear without these engines... $1.000.000.00 for these tiny tubes? How much is the CJ-6 engine in good shape worth that came with say a lear 23?
 
kbfispotter
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RE: What Is A CJ 6 Engine?

Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:04 pm



Quoting Learjet23 (Reply 6):
How much is the CJ-6 engine in good shape worth that came with say a lear 23?

Here, this should give you a rough idea on the cost of a CJ610... www.whiteindustries.com/Turbojet.htm While not a true representation of the cost of a overhauled engine, it is still good for ballparking the price.

Kris
Proud to be an A&P!!!
 
KELPkid
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RE: What Is A CJ 6 Engine?

Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:44 pm



Quoting KBFIspotter (Reply 7):
Here, this should give you a rough idea on the cost of a CJ610... www.whiteindustries.com/Turbojet.htm While not a true representation of the cost of a overhauled engine, it is still good for ballparking the price.

Kris

Wow, is that with a core exchange? If not, an overhauled CJ610 could be had for not much more than a new from factory Lycoming or Continental...  Wink
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DashTrash
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RE: What Is A CJ 6 Engine?

Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:01 pm

Looks like Doug Kalitta is selling overhauled CJ-610s for 170,000-250,000.

http://www.dkturbines.com/
 
kbfispotter
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RE: What Is A CJ 6 Engine?

Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:12 pm



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 8):
Wow, is that with a core exchange? If not, an overhauled CJ610 could be had for not much more than a new from factory Lycoming or Continental...

I believe that the engines sold by White Industries are mostly all timed out.... But none the less, it would be interesting to buy one and try to mount it to a Cessna!  idea 

Kris
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tb727
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:40 pm

RE: What Is A CJ 6 Engine?

Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:33 am



Quoting DashTrash (Reply 9):
Looks like Doug Kalitta is selling overhauled CJ-610s for 170,000-250,000.

We do in fact have the largest selection of CJ-610 and CF-700 engines and engine parts in the world! A few years back some timed out cores went for $10k each at an auction.
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