KPDX
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American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:40 pm

I dont hang around this forum that much, so dont flip out when I ask this.  Wink I just had a simple question. When I am spotting, I noticed that AS MD-80's take much less runway than AA MD-80's, even when both planes are full. Why is this, do they use different engines?

Heres some examples.

This Alaska MD-83 uses maybe half of the runway.


These American MD's use about 3/4's of it (a few times Ive seen rotations only 500 ft from the end of the runway).


Thanks!

KPDX  Smile
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TrijetsRMissed
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:56 pm

If you are spotting from PDX, it's probably because the AA aircraft are used on longer routes. Therefore, they need more fuel, which adds weight and makes for a longer take-off roll. AA flies to ORD and DFW, which are farther than any destination AS serves directly from PDX with a Mad Dog, I believe.
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KPDX
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:51 pm



Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 1):
If you are spotting from PDX, it's probably because the AA aircraft are used on longer routes. Therefore, they need more fuel, which adds weight and makes for a longer take-off roll. AA flies to ORD and DFW, which are farther than any destination AS serves directly from PDX with a Mad Dog, I believe.

Wow, didn't even think about that. Stupid me, thanks!
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MQTmxguy
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:06 pm



Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 1):
If you are spotting from PDX, it's probably because the AA aircraft are used on longer routes. Therefore, they need more fuel, which adds weight and makes for a longer take-off roll. AA flies to ORD and DFW, which are farther than any destination AS serves directly from PDX with a Mad Dog, I believe.

Very true. In addition the AA birds might be using a lower thrust setting, also for fuel conservation.
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LeftCoaster
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:36 pm

Maybe average AA fliers are "heaftier" than Alaskas??

 Smile
 
AA737-823
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:35 pm



Quoting LeftCoaster (Reply 4):
Maybe average AA fliers are "heaftier" than Alaskas??

Are you kidding? You've clearly never been to Alaska.

Haha, yes, I just went there.


Anyhow, as far as thrust settings go, the JT-8D-200s aren't FADEC, so I don't think they'd use an alternate takeoff thrust setting.... not quite that advanced.
 
AAR90
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:13 pm



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
Anyhow, as far as thrust settings go, the JT-8D-200s aren't FADEC, so I don't think they'd use an alternate takeoff thrust setting.... not quite that advanced.

AA MD80s utilize Assumed Temp method of derate to obtain reduced thrust takeoff settings.
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PDXCessna206
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:17 pm

Probably fuel and payload differences and maybe takeoff thrust settings as set by airline protocol?

Regardless, they are amazing to watch flying over my house 20 miles SE of Portland. Amazingly loud. I love it.
 
ikramerica
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:41 pm



Quoting KPDX (Reply 2):
Wow, didn't even think about that. Stupid me, thanks!

Nah, not stupid. But AA's PDX-ORD and PDX-DFW are long range flights for this plane (too long for comfort, in my experience).

AS doesn't fly their MD80s long range anymore. That's what the 737NG are for.
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KPDX
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:07 am



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 8):
PDX-DFW are long range flights for this plane (too long for comfort, in my experience).

Yea, I've flown PDX-DFW about 10 times in the Maddog and it is definetly not the best experience but flying, nevertheless.  Smile
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dinker225
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:33 am

When offered, the AA MD-80's will sometimes take the shorter runway here in PDX. Always depends on the winds. They really use the entire runway when they use the shorter of the 2!
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KPDX
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:00 pm



Quoting Dinker225 (Reply 10):
When offered, the AA MD-80's will sometimes take the shorter runway here in PDX. Always depends on the winds. They really use the entire runway when they use the shorter of the 2!

Yep! Seen them do that a few times.  Smile Pretty exciting to watch.
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SlamClick
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:32 pm



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
JT-8D-200s aren't FADEC, so I don't think they'd use an alternate takeoff thrust setting.... not quite that advanced

One doesn't need a computer to add, subtract, multiply or divide . It just makes it easier. We were manually charting reduced thrust takeoffs for B-727-100 and DC-9-10 using the very manual, very non-digital JT8D-1 through -7 engines. Can't speak for earlier jet ops like the 707 but tables and run-around graphs have been around longer than jets have. Pencils predate diodes.
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Starlionblue
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:01 pm

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 12):
One doesn't need a computer to add, subtract, multiply or divide .

ZING!

Way to go Captain Click! Put those young'uns in their place. I had to learn to do math with paper, pencil and the computer between my ears! You young'uns with your newfangled calcu-laters should try it .


Extra credit for anyone under the age of 50 who posts the original meaning of the word computer, with a brief explanation in your own words about why this is relevant to the discussion at hand.

[Edited 2008-04-29 08:01:50]
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alaska737
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:02 pm



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 13):
Extra credit for anyone under the age of 50 who posts the original meaning of the word computer, with a brief explanation in your own words about why this is relevant to the discussion at hand

well weren't the original computers just basically E6-B's or similar so I suppose a "computer" would simply be a device capable of semi-basic calculations. I could be way off but thats just a guess.
 
MQTmxguy
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:29 pm



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 13):
Extra credit for anyone under the age of 50 who posts the original meaning of the word computer, with a brief explanation in your own words about why this is relevant to the discussion at hand.

Basically anything that can extrapolate or manipulate data within a given set of constants, variables, and parameters.

It is relevant because aircraft crews had most of the same options and abilities before FADECs, ADCs, FMS, EICAS, etc. The only difference is they had to apply a little more brain power and effort to achieve them. However these skills are still relevant because any man-made device can and will fail, leaving you with only your wits, skills, and that "computer between your ears".

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MDorBust
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:39 pm

Oh noes, here comes the geek... "computer" is a 17th century english word for a person who performs mathmatical calculations. It can be traced backwards to the latin word "computare": To count. It's relevant to the discussion because in it's original definition, pilots are computers. [/geek]
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MQTmxguy
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:56 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 16):
Oh noes, here comes the geek... "computer" is a 17th century english word for a person who performs mathmatical calculations. It can be traced backwards to the latin word "computare": To count. It's relevant to the discussion because in it's original definition, pilots are computers. [/geek]

Aww crap I think I lose
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Starlionblue
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RE: American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80

Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:45 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 16):
Oh noes, here comes the geek... "computer" is a 17th century english word for a person who performs mathmatical calculations. It can be traced backwards to the latin word "computare": To count. It's relevant to the discussion because in it's original definition, pilots are computers. [/geek]

Correct! Have a gold star.
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